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Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Week 14 Open Game Discussion
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

The biggest games of the week are Philadelphia-Dallas and Minnesota-Seattle, where the Cowboys and Seahawks can all but clinch playoff berths with wins, but could be in rough shape with losses, while the Eagles and Vikings are both fighting for their lives. Other games with playoff implications include the Jags and Titans on Thursday night, and Colts-Texans, Ravens-Chiefs, Patriots-Dolphins, and Rams-Bears contests on Sunday. Use this thread to discuss them all.

Comments

153 comments, Last at 13 Dec 2018, 5:55am

1 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Wow, that was a terrible job by the Titans punt returner. Obviously he muffed the punt, but by the time he picked up the ball he was still outside of the endzone. He just needed to head up field or, failing that, simply avoid going backwards. It's not like there was any upside to retreating into his endzone either.

2 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The Jags somehow manage to have a drive go 8:20 and still result in no points. However, they are now in position where they could easily get another safety. Has a team ever had 4 points before?

8 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Apparently Derrick Henry hadn't had a run longer than 16 yards this season before that play.

EDIT: And right now, in the third quarter, he's averaging more than 16 yards a play on 8 attempts.

6 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

That two play sequence beginning with the fourth down attempt was probably just about the game. I don't think the Jags offense can manage 11 points in this game.

9 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

One more rushing TD would tie Derrick Henry for the NFL record. He's also within 77 yards of the rushing yards record.

19 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Jacksonville should clean house entirely. It would be hard to create a more pathetic offense, less suited to the modern NFL than they showcased last night. Persisting through 5 years of Bortles, including taking his 5th year option; expending countless resources on running backs creating a 'smashmouth' identity leading to stat lines like Fournette 14 carries for 36 yards. Embarrassing.

22 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The irony is smashmouth can work. Tennessee does it!

But so does Dallas, and LA, and Baltimore, and occasionally New England.

It's really helpful to have either a running QB (Dallas, Tennessee, Baltimore, but also Bortles!) or a really good pocket passer (LA, NE). Cody Kessler is neither. I don't think I saw him throw a pass that was both inbounds and beyond the line of scrimmage.

Shit, I can do that.

25 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Tennessee is currently ranked #26 in offensive DVOA. Dallas is ranked #23. This is not a good advert for 'smashmouth'.

LA & NE sometimes go run heavy because their ultra-efficient pass games creates hugely favorable defensive fronts to run against.

A bad QB will of course cripple any offense. But Jacksonville's strategy was to hide their bad QB by relentlessly running the ball, which is frankly absurd.

30 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Tennessee isn't really a smashmouth team, not anymore, the problem is Mariota's been dealing with injuries, inaccuracy, and a weak interior offensive line. Lafleur wants to run to set up the play action game, but it hasn't been working, and the Titans' best games offensively have been ones where Mariota can throw it around.

27 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Jags seem to be needing a coach like Coughlin. OC isn't worth much...DC apparently hasn't
even mentioned to DB's, how they should communicate (3 of the past 4 weeks they just made
numerous HUGE mistakes in this regard)....only time they really excelled is Fournette's 40 time when he sprinted across field to get into a fight. HC is a off. line coach at best....team talks like a SB team but plays like last in their div., which they are. Alot of smack talk but very little to show by these mental midgits. They've excelled at one thing this year, and that is mental mistakes + penalities....they've done great in that aspect. Difference 'tween a team like this & a team like
NE is Grand Canyon width. They had a good year but basically mediocrity enshrined.

29 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Marrone is hugely underrated, IMO. He's quietly been doing great work in Buffalo and now Jacksonville for years. Should they still fire him? I don't know that Jacksonville is a big enough draw to get anybody better.

33 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Personally I like him (Marrone) but......point is, *right now* they need a coach like Coughlin
as they are all big/trash talkers, and Coughlin won't put up wi/that & will make
them play to their abilities (plus less penalties). I'll give him this....main % of $'s spent on
team is Defense yet.....my point is, put them up against NE (man for man)...Jags are
MUCH more talented, yet they aren't cohesive, are plain ole stupid wi/mental errors
(penalities/blown assignments in DB recently ...'n I mean BLOWN (WR's are like
15 yds open!)) so they might want to draft differently. The *talented* yet,
IAAM "its all about me" players like: Fournette/Jalen Ramsey/Harrison (new safety)/Dante
Fowler(traded but was a nickel head & chest thumpin fool when he made one play per
game yet got crushed the other times).......well, they seem to have drafted the cockiest team in NFL
and yes, they have talent but coaching is a talent as well...when they won, it was tolerated, but
they are making same mistakes over & over AND OVER again....so its melt down time &
players need to be coached...NE can do it, why can't Jax?

28 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Just from the highlights, that looked like a 2017 Giants level of effort from the Jags defense. For those who watched the whole game, did it look like a team that had quit? Or am I reading too much into a few big highlights against an exhausted D on a late-season Thursday night game?

34 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I don't think so....I think they miss their onfield coach (ex-MLB Posluszny)..he
was slow afoot but he kept D mentally in line...Miles Jack is fast but def coach on the field isn't
his forte....I've seen all the games....the best example of Jags is...against Buffalo...punt
happens, Buff guy signals fair catch (at 5yd line like an idjit)....Jags player (per replay)
looks RIGHT at him when he signals fair catch...the proceeds to deck him wi/tackle...
in next few minutes...huge gain, holding call (not even NEAR the play nor needed)...then
harrison gets a personal foul call (another big mistake)..no mental fortitude...and
of course, then the fight....guy (Fornette) runs 60 yds across field (from sideline) to
fight....I mean, they are multi millionaires but can't think..lost game by 3.

Don't think it was effort, its just ineptitude mentally & thats drafting/coaching to
some degree also.

38 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Ravens/Chiefs and Rams/Bears are both fascinating matchups today (both scheduled to be played in freezing conditions) which could illuminate just how much impact defense can have in the NFL in 2018.

39 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

It's time for another season of FO gameday chat! Join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters as we say smart, analytic and totally backed by data things about the football games...in real time!

Unlike Jon Gruden, FO gameday chat isn't beholden to old ways of doing things so we've migrated from slack to discord the season. Among other advantages, it makes it really easy to join, just click the discord invite link: https://discord.gg/hevp2M

Please note that it'll probably take a few minutes for one of our admins to matriculate you into the chat

41 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Is there something on the Green Bay sideline that saps head coaches of their intelligence? Joe Philbin has used, and lost, both of his challenges before 90 seconds of game time has elapsed. I would argue that the first call was so egregious that he shouldn’t have even had to challenge (how is it a catch when the ball is moving in his arms all the way to the ground and then pops out?), and it definitely should’ve been overturned, but still.

40 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Packers have challenged two plays - lost both - in the first 1:23 of the game.

I think the first should have been overturned, but the second probably didn't have compelling evidence.

42 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Agreed on both counts. Plus, had the first one been overturned, the Falcons would’ve had 3rd and 5 at their own 30; it’s not like it would’ve automatically ended the drive. The risk/reward on that one seems questionable.

48 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

He wouldn't know the offense either and is a half decade removed from being a good QB. The actual possibly decent QB who is available is Sam Bradford. Of course, the Redskins season is simply lost at this point, so whatever they do at QB doesn't really matter. It was a miracle they were ever 6-3, but in their current state they would need a superstar QB to be competitive.

47 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Saints losing to the Bucs by 11 at the half. This makes me wish New Orleans had pulled out the Dallas game. Then we could be facing the bizarre prospect of a team being undefeated except for being swept by a bad, under .500 opponent.

49 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Josh Allen has 321 rushing yards over the last 2.5 games. That's apparently a record for a QB over a three game span, breaking a record held by (no surprise) Michael Vick. Pretty amazing.

50 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Aaron Rodgers breaks the record for most consecutive passes without a pick. Clearly the firing of McCarthy is already working! Rodgers setting records as soon a Cancer McCarthy removed!

No, but seriously, it's pretty funny he sets that record in the midst of this nearly disastrous season.

52 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I'm honestly rooting for the Ravens here because I figure the Broncos chances of actually winning anything went down with Sanders. Now I'm in favor of chaos, and what could be more chaotic than the Chiefs and Chargers being in a power struggle and the Steelers sweating it out in Oakland?

Not that I don't want the Broncos to make the playoffs, but much like last year, I want as much chaos and weirdness as possible. The score that's really irritating me is the Colts/Texans score.

64 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Hey, ff you want chaos and weirdness...Brownies keeping the dream alive.

NYT playoff simulator gives them a 29% shot at making it at 8-7-1...

Although the Miami Miracle upset is likely going to lower that a lot, as is if the Ravens can pull this one off.

53 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The Saints just ran a play with their backup where Brees split out wide. I remember Flacco getting mocked for not even bothering to run a route, but I want to know: why not just take the QB out for that play in order to better sell it? Do a late substitution or something if you must, but why keep the starter in? Is there a reason that they keep the starting quarterback in during those plays?

57 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Man, I hate it when we miss out on what could be a more exciting finish. The Colts up by three face a third and one where a first down will end the game. Texans commit a neutral zone infraction. Then I switch channels just in time to see Cam Newton throw a game ending pick.

60 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

So the Dolphins somehow score a miracle TD to win...? I saw it update to Miami winning on CBS' scoreboard site, but then I saw a tweet congratulating the Pats on a ten-win season and thought it was an update mistake. Apparently not. I wish CBS had switched to that game instead of KC-Baltimore.

62 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I wonder what a tie would do for the Ravens' playoff chances. I imagine it would be pretty bad considering how many teams are chasing them, but maybe not. How harmful a tie would be should change how aggressively you approach a late OT situation... But is there any NFL coach who would take that into account?

67 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I'm sure glad we have James Lofton to assure viewers that punting is better than going for a 4th and 3 on the opponent's 45-yard line! (It was a touchback.) Apparently Lofton is yet another know-it-all know-nothing.

68 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Chiefs finally end this game. What a crazy game, from the two fourth down conversions, to the Ravens seemingly fumbling the game away, to the missed kick to sent it to OT, to Mahomes almost losing a fumble himself.

How wild that we had almost all of the top three seeds in the AFC lose. In the end the Chiefs are the big winners. Pittsburgh to unless they blow it against the Raiders.

71 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

It pales in comparison to some of the other finishes in games that actually matter, but the Jets beat the Bills in a close one when the Jets went for it on fourth and goal from the one down by three late. Todd Bowles has been an extremely cautious coach, so that was an out of character decision. Hard not to suspect he made that call because he knows he needs a very strong finish to avoid getting fired. Of course, you would prefer a coach who makes decisions like that before he's on the hot seat. The Jets were completely annihilated at home the last time they played the Bills, so at least Bowles has his team playing much better than that.

76 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

George Kittle over 200 yards receiving in the first half. I don't know if that's the biggest receiving game we've seen this season, but it has to be close... and we aren't even at halftime. Crazy.
Today is apparently the day for playoff contenders to struggle against inferior opposition. We had the Patriots, Texans, and Panthers all lose, the Chiefs almost joined them, and now Denver and the Steelers are trailing.

EDIT: WTH, Kittle is only four yards away from the all time receiving yards record for a TE. Amazing.

82 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The Miami Patriots game was a contest to see who could throw the game away. Sending gronk out in coverage was horrific and nonsensical. Guys flailing at ball carriers on both teams throughout the game. 1st and goal on the 5, and the pats run up the middle which they have failed to have successful plays on *ALL DAY*, meanwhile Brady, when he wasn't getting sacked to end the half due to forgetting the game state, was picking them apart.
I would love for the staff here to let us know what the Pats got on all there runs between the tackles, but if it isn't -30%dvoa I'll be shocked.
The dolphins, for their part, allow 2 blocked punts and a shanked punt. Just ugly.

113 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Yeah it's pretty horrendous confirmation bias to blast Belichick for sending Gronk out for that final play. Coaches can't optimize personnel packages for every conceivable game situations - there just isn't enough time in the day. The fact is, Gronk is one of your better athletes/ball handlers, and having him out there is, in general, not a bad thing. Unfortunately trying to tackle Drake in the open field to save a touchdown is one situation where he might be overmatched, but the chances of that situation occurring is minute.

134 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Open field tackling is exactly why you don't run a TE or WR out there on this kind of play. Again there wasn't any reason to believe the pass was going to go 80 yards in the air. It's clearly going to be a pass + lateral, or a quick out + 1 additional play. Gronk is only useful if you're dealing with a jump ball.

110 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The idea was probably that Miami would throw a short out to set up a shorter Hail Mary, but by having Gronk out there for the first play you don’t need to quick change into a specialty package on the fly and risk miscommunication.

No one expected a Chinese fire drill.

133 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

The Pats had time outs left. There was no risk of a 12 men penalty if they did a quick out or some such.

In any case I stand by my assessment. You have to coach it better than that. They are not going to throw it 80 yards in the air. Put a guy back there who can make a tackle and isn't nursing an injury.

83 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

THERE'S the Lindsay I know! I don't know the why of it, but all game he's been getting tackled by the heavies up front, a big change from recent games.

Also, these announcers are so conservative. I thought both 4th down calls were right. But I also think most teams should go for most 4th and shorts.

88 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

This game is like a re-run of the Texans, Raiders, Rams, and Chiefs games, where the Broncos got into a big hole early and had to frantically try to come back in the 4th quarter when their offense finally woke up, and usually running out of time.

90 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Goddammit Joseph! You absolutely should have challenged that play!

Also, everything James Lofton says is wrong.

91 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

It took the Broncos at least 90 seconds of game clock to get back to where they would have been after the unchallenged Patrick catch, and they almost didn't make it back at all. They might have lost 2 full minutes there.

100 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I did like Joseph's coaching on 4th down today, though. And the fact that the Broncos kept fighting says that he hasn't lost the team.

Not happy with the results of the game, but this did more to convince me that Kyle Shanahan (sp.) is legit and just needs a quarterback than Joseph needing to be on a short leash (which was my impression after the Houston game where he exhibited some of the worst in-game coaching I've ever seen).

108 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Agreed; he was admirably aggressive all second half, except with the damn challenges again. I've been thinking that all it would take for Joseph to win me over as a fan is to show some progress with his horrific game management (of which the challenge flag problem is one aspect). How many times is he going to make the same mistakes? And why is the offense always so bad in the first half of games?

92 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Raiders take a three point lead with five to play. Lot of favorites struggling today. The Steelers have been hampered by the absence of Roethlisberger in the second half, though it looks like he might be coming back into the game now. Raiders, on the other hand, could have a bigger lead if not for at least 125 yards of penalties.

94 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Shame to see Larry Fitzgerald finish out with this woebegone unit. He might be an asset for the 49ers or Broncos or Seahawks.

96 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

With Roethlisberger back the Steelers roll down the field pretty easily to score a TD and take the lead. Problem is the Raiders still have plenty of time to have their own scoring drive. They do that, though it takes a fourth and goal conversion. Now Pittsurgh has only 21 seconds left to try and work a FG for OT.

103 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Turns out postgame that Roethlisberger could've gone back into the game earlier, but Mike Tomlin declined to insert him. That seems like an inexcusable decision, especially seeing how things turned out. The Steelers scored a TD and got in position for a FG with Roethlisberger at the helm, but the fact that they were trailing when he went in meant the TD Oakland scored on the their one drive in that period was enough to win. If Roethlisberger goes in earlier Pittsburgh likely wouldn't have been in such a precarious position.

EDIT: To be precise, Tomlin said he didn't go back in because "we were in the rhythm and flow of the game." That's absurd since the Steelers didn't score a point with Josh Dobbs at QB.

107 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Look, it's possible that Tomlin thought 'it's only the Raiders, we'll win with Dobbs'. But I'm not about to blast him for holding Ben out without knowing what the team trainers were saying. We know by now that Ben is as tough as they come, and would not be sitting out voluntarily. There must have been some relatively serious issue there.

109 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Did you read my post? Tomlin himself publicly stated Roethlisberger could've come back into the game but Tomlin decided to hold him out. No speculation needed. His words: "he probably could've come in a series or so sooner, but we were in the rhythm and flow of the game." It wasn't a medical decision unless Tomlin is outright lying.

114 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

It might have been a "medical decision" along the lines of "we're leading, Ben gets injured every season for a few games, let's try to win without taking the risk that he gets more banged up but send him in if we need to."

Basically, "don't let Ben take more hits today unless we need him to."

116 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

I did, and I believe there is simply no conceivable reason Tomlin would hold Ben out of a one-score game, unless there was a clear medical reason to. Why would he possibly do that, at this crucial stage of the season? But he has to be diplomatic in his post-match comments to avoid throwing the doctors, or his backup QB, or Ben under the bus. Absorbing blame in the aftermath of a loss is what a head-coach is supposed to do.

EDIT: of course in hindsight it appears as though Ben could and should have come back earlier. I just don't feel it is fair to blast the coach without full knowledge of what the issue with Ben was, and what information he was being given.

117 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Throw the doctors under the bus? What does that even mean? They are supposed to tell you if a QB can't play, that's their job. Announcing that publicly would be in no comprehensible way throwing them under the bus. I mean, I've literally never even heard the most unhinged of fans blame the team doctors for ruling a player out.

132 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

He was dead confident that they could beat a 2-10 team without Ben, and to boot, he had to justify/prove his decision to keep Dobbs over Landry Jones was correct.

Well, we see how that turned out.
The Steelers are all but eliminated from the playoffs, since they will be 7-7-1 heading into week 17.

99 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Horrible game management by the cowboys at the end of the half..instead of trying a potential gw field goal, it goes to OT

105 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Maybe some recency bias, but Ravens/Chiefs was the best game I've watched this year. It was refreshing to see a genuinely very good defense seriously challenge, and often confound an all-time great offense. And this Ravens offense is quite unique, with the Chiefs not being well set up to stop it. Made for a fascinating game.

If the Chiefs beat the Chargers on Thursday night they are virtually guaranteed number 1 seeding, and should be able to spend week 17 with starters resting up.

118 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Assuming the following
1) GB somehow beats CHI next week at Soldier Field, and follows it up with wins at the Jets and home to the Lions

2) MINN loses to SEA tomorrow, and then loses either to MIA at home or DET away (unlikely, perhaps. But this is the same Viking team that got whipped by the Bills)

then in the finale (CHI/MINN) the Bears-- with perhaps only a #3 or #4 seed to play for-- in other words, next to nothing-- could decide which of their division rivals they want to screw the most. Beat the Vikings (the game is in the Twin Cities) and they knock out the Vikings and the Packers get in (and yes I do not believe any of PHILA, WASH or CAR will run table to finish 9-7), lose/lay down to MINN and the Vikings get in and the Packers are out.

Doncha love sports? Truth be known CHI will probably whip GB next week and render this all moot, but it would be fun...

120 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

So after a half, the Rams and Bears each have a pair of field goals. That’s a near-optimal outcome for the Bears defense, and a colossal disappointment for the Bears offense. Trubisky is so inaccurate.

123 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

3rd and goal from the 2 and the Bears line up with at least three defensive linemen on offense. Looks like they’re going to give it to Hicks again, but instead Trubisky throws a TD to backup offensive lineman Bradley Sowell.

I don’t know how good this offense is, but it’s fun to watch.

125 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Tell me again how defense is dead in the NFL? The Bears are most likely going to hold the vaunted Rams offense to 6 points, in a game where Trubisky was godawful and turned the ball over 3 times.

136 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Yeah.. I'd really like to see a study about effectiveness of great defense + run heavy offense.

I have an impression that with this strategy, when you get an early game advantage your success rate is going to be really, really high. And also see how effective is this approach in playoffs. If you guys know any studies about this, please let me know! Would love to read them.

126 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Wow yes that Bose ad with Aaron Rodgers is creepy. They should have used the woman with cancer he supposedly snubbed than a prepubescent girl. Or his State Farm agent.

129 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Dak showed me he won't cut it in playoffs.....Rams loss was surprising....P. Rivers for MVP....
Colts aren't dead yet....good comback by N.O......I can't yet go "all in" on Chiefs, just don't
know why but I can't.....Pitt loses to Oak? How'd that happen???.....this generation of NFL is
defined by "its consistantly inconsistant". Right now a 7-6 team could win the SB or Rams/NO/KC...nothing is for sure. QB play 'round league indicates that.

139 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Um, I'll give you that he played badly against the Cowboys, and was average yesterday, but let's look at his last 5 games--the second half of this season:

Nov. 11 at CIN--22 of 25, 265 yds, 3 TD
Nov. 18 vs. PHI--22 of 30, 363 yds, 4 TD
Nov. 22 vs. ATL--15 of 22, 171 yds. 4 TD, 1 INT
Nov. 29 at DAL--18 of 28, 127 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
Dec. 9 at TAM--24 of 31, 201 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
(Stats from his ESPN page)
Total 101 of 136 (74%) 1127 yds (225/game) 13 TD, 3 INT--yeah, he hasn't played like he did in the first 8 games, but that was unsustainable. Neither has Mahomes, Goff, etc.
The Cincy and Philly game look like All-Pro stat lines. The reason for the lower Y/A the last few weeks is b/c they are really missing a deep threat guy since Ted Ginn went to IR. Cameron Meredith joined him, and rookie Tre-Quan Smith got injured and hasn't had a catch (in 2 targets) since the PHI game.
I mean, either Kamara or Taysom Hill is the fastest guy that plays offense on a regular basis, but I don't think that either of them would really qualify as a "deep threat." I think that the last 3 defenses have figured that out, and have adjusted. I also believe that Brees has been pressured a lot more these last 3 games.

148 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Stats look great.....ability to play BIG in a BIG game, I think is his achilles.

I can't state anything until after playoffs (if they make playoffs)....I just don't have
faith in his accuracy. He's been given 2 of the best position players in NFL
(RB/WR) but I just can't wrap my head around his pre-read abilities. Dbl-Blitz
the A gap & he freaks....please look for this in playoffs...but you make a good
*stats* case :)

150 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

"If they make playoffs"? They clinched the NFC South yesterday, and are in position to get the #1 seed!
"I just don't have faith in his accuracy."--Um, how many times has he set the completion percentage record? He's on pace to OBLITERATE his own record again this year!
"Ability to play BIG in a BIG game"? How about that Super Bowl MVP trophy? If that's too old for you, how about the MNF this year against WAS to set the all-time passing yardage record? The Rams game, the Eagles game, both ATL games--all nationally televised "BIG" games.

As for the "stats"--did your forget that this is a "stats" site??? You stated that he was headed down the end-of-career-Manning path, I showed you the stats that show otherwise, while at the same time acknowledging his last two games have been sub-par--anybody's stats will show that. So, feel free to admit that your argument is based upon your opinion and feelings, when the basic and advanced stats show otherwise.

141 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Would be nice to rtake a few bong hitd befor e this game or even better yet durinf it!

Picl is Vikes 26, setahakws 23

142 Re: Week 14 Open Game Discussion

Based on the jerseys and quality of play, I see we've booked the Orlando Thunder and Frankfurt Galaxy for Monday night football.