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Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Week 3 Open Game Discussion
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

The last time the Cleveland Browns won a regular season game, Myles Garrett was still playing at Texas A&M. Together they have a chance to win again, hosting the Jets on Thursday night. Use this thread to discuss that game and all the weekend's action, up to the Steelers-Buccaneers contest on Monday night.

Comments

167 comments, Last at 24 Sep 2018, 10:56pm

6 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

6 minutes left in the first half and crickets here :). Taylor getting a lot of heat from the fans but his O-line is a hot mess.

8 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Hard to say. As easy as it is to point the finger at Tyrod---and no question he will hopefully never see the field again this year--he didn't really lose the Saints game.

And the best QB play in the Hue era has come with inserting a QB in the middle of the game whom the other team didn't spend the week planning for, i.e. the times Hogan stepped in last year. Baker was amazing overall tonigh, but was especially good at the start when he seemed to catch the Jets off guard.

11 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Agree that they likely almost have to come as a package deal; indeed, Baker appears to be one of the end results of a 76ers-style tank that Hue and friends has commandeered, but unlike Sam Hinkie and some of the other Browns brass, might not be separable from his stars.

Baker can also directly be traced to the Carson Wentz megatrade, which had looked worse and worse with Corey Coleman flopping, Njoku at times looking like so, and, until the past few weeks, it looking like Jabrill Peppers would flop, but allowed for 0-16.

The Baker/Hue combo is going to end up replacing the LeBron/Tyronn Lue combo, and being very similar.

12 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Did anyone notice that the Saints were happily blocking Myles Garrett with a fullback, instead of a lineman.
The Jets had no problem blocking Garrett with a TE. On the goal line touchdown, Garrett was outside the offensive tackle - he easily took a hook step and blocked him inside.
On another goal line run, Garrett ran outside as if it were a pass rush, being blocked upfield, leaving an enormous gap for the linebacker to fill.
All in all, I have to say Myles Garrett doesn't impress me.

13 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

During the game I was hoping they would show a replay of some of those runs to the left because someone or someones on that defense was sucking hard. I thought it was the linebackers, as I couldn't believe it would be Garrett, but from what you're saying...

14 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Yes on one of the TD runs the tackle took a pass set and Garrett showed little discipline in screaming upfield looking for a sack, leaving a huge hole for Crowell to run through untouched. Garrett showed a lot of skill in some of his pass rushes, but got duped or beaten on many runs.

17 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Also, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Garrett was doing exactly what he was instructed on those plays. I didn't actually get to watch any of them, but it's hard to tell with a sane D-coordinator, let alone Gregg Williams

16 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Upset picks for me: Cinci over Carolia; Denver over Baltimore
Sidebar: My fantasy teams go winless again. The upshot being injuries are a bitch.

19 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Bills up 10-0 on the Vikings?? I doubt that will hold up, but still, considering Arizona has only managed to score 6 points total through two games, I'd say it's likely Buffalo isn't actually the worst team in the league.

22 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I live in Broncos country, and I absolutely despise the networks' assumption that I would rather watch other AFC West teams than just the best football game. I've never met anyone else who did either. I hate that almost as much as I hate getting the fucking Cowboys (and stupid Aikman, goes without saying) every week in the late game spot. Looks like I'm done after the early games this week. Why do the networks hate people watching them so much

23 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Agreed. That's only true at the end of the year; at the start of the year, show us the best football.

In fairness to Fox this week, pretty much every matchup they have in the early games looks good on paper. The only exception (I'd say) is Giants/Texans.

24 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Okay, in the first four drives in the Broncos-Ravens game, here are the results:

Punt (blocked, sets Denver up inside the 10)
TD (6-yard run on the first play of the drive)
TD (Ravens shred the Denver defense)
TD (Denver has a decent drive and then hand it to Sanders on an end-around)

On top of that, Buffalo is beating Minnesota by (checks) three scores, in Minnesota, and the Giants look like they're running the ball decently in Houston. Is this just one of those weeks where every game in the NFL goes weird?

27 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Giants have been leaving their #2 TE to block JJ Watt 1-on-1 a lot in pass protection in the first half. Hasn't really burned them yet, which is surprising. I guess Watt isn't back into prime form yet, because the Watt of a few years ago would have disemboweled Eli Manning against that assignment.

37 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Since I posted this Watt has made some plays, mostly against the RT subbed in for Flowers.

Poor Barkley is definitely in that Barry Sanders situation, where he makes superhuman play after superhuman play just to get back to the line of scrimmage and get tackled for short gain. He'd be Gurley/Bell/Elliot tier on a better team.

85 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

O-line still looks like an issue for the G-Men but Eli handled the pressure better today. Solder and Hernandez were having problems double-teaming Clowney, at times, who continues to blow hot and cold as a pass rusher. When he puts it all together he looks a monster but other times he looks very unrefined and trying to 'out-athlete' whoever he's up against. On 2 of Watt's sacks he was coming from the other side and about to make a play.

154 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

It looks to me like the Giants line is mostly fine at every position except right tackle, which is brutally weak and maybe bad enough to sink the team if they continue to refuse to give help over there. All they did this week was replace notorious turnstile Flowers with unknown turnstile Wheeler. Flowers probably wouldn't have played Watt any better than Wheeler, but he also couldn't have really played him any worse. It's pretty bad coaching to come into this game with no plans to give help to a backup tackle matched up against one of the game's best pass rushers, and then refuse to adapt all game to help the poor guy out. Maybe they can develop a tackle-eligible package with Wheeler and Flowers both on the right side and see if between the two of them, they can at least get slow down pass rushers a little bit on their way to Eli.

29 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

24-0 Bills with 12 to play in the 2nd. It's honestly hard to even imagine a scoreline more shocking than that. Maybe it's just a reminder that it's Week 3 and we can't be sure yet how good or bad any of these teams are.

35 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Aside from the Redskins and Bills game, the Texans being down by 14 to the Giants is also a surprise. This season has got to be such a big disappointment for Texans fans so far considering how much excitement there was around DeShaun Watson. I wonder if Bill O'Brien will be end up getting fired if this season doesn't get turned around.

48 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Geez, you should never draft a TE in the first round. Look at the next seven! players taken after Ebron in 2014. I looked as far back as 2007 when Greg Olson was picked (by Chicago) to find a "good" pick of a TE. Eifert wasn't bad in 2013 I guess, and I'm not judging the THREE TEs taken in the first round of 2017.

41 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The worst roughing the passer call yet has been made against Clay Matthews again after a textbook clean sack on Smith. Get your shit together, NFL.

136 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

And yet it's against the rule.

The rule is stupid. The NFL is run by decapitated chickens who don't think through the consequences of what they are doing.
Why did they think it was a good idea to write a rule preventing pass rushers from landing on top of the people they were trying to tackle? It's such an ill-conceived concept!

155 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

It feels right now like any given sack has just a random chance of being flagged for roughing. Given the headless chicken style of management, I thing the NFL will probably swing the pendulum all the way the other way by halfway through the season given the fan backlash. It'll be just like the helmet rule, where the referees quietly stopped calling it at the end of the preseason when the league realized they were pissing off the fans.

86 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

If you look carefully without cheese-colored glasses you'd see that Matthews left his feet and came straight down on Smith's chest during the tackle. Could have ended in broken ribs or a sternum injury.
If he had come in waist high with feet on the ground it would never have been called. Believe it or not, the rule is designed to protect Aaron Rodgers and his twice broken collarbone more than the Alex Smith's of this world.

98 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

He could have been nicer about it, but do you seriously think that hit is unusually likely to cause an injury?

The rule isn't going to prevent those kind of hits anyway, because it's not physically possible to prevent those hits. I hate using a cliche, but the only solution to this "problem" (that I don't agree exists) is flag football. And that may well even have merit, but I'm not going there.

104 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

There have been complaints about every rule change that reduced dangerous hits. I bet there were complaints that banning headslaps would ruin the game. My opinion is that only people who love violence complain. To me, football is about more than violent hits. Don't like that? Tough nuts.

58 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I'm sure most people still remember the "Calvin Johnson no-catch" and how, even though the call was completely correct by the rule book, the NFL ended up changing the rule in the offseason because the result was so egregiously different from what the average fan expected seeing it with the naked eyeball. That was ONE play.

Well, the NFL has about 3-5 plays per week now where game changing, exciting defensive plays are being overturned AND turned into major offensive plays, because of this idiotic "body weight" rule and the league's enforcement of it.

This has GOT to change, immediately. It's so offensive to see this happening over and over, and they're altering game outcomes and ruining the excitement and fairness of the game.

Clay Matthews and the Packers have been the biggest victims so far, but every team is going to get bitten by this multiple times eventually. No one likes this rule. Stop. It.

50 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I don't think that is a realistic possibility, but I take your point. I'm surprised there hasn't been a play where the defender pulls up before completing the tackle and thereby lets the QB escape to throw a pass, like happened to one of the Giants linemen a few years ago, I don't remember who the QB was

64 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Tavon Austin just got horsecollared on a tackle that started out of bounds, directly in front a ref. Who looked at it and just signaled for the clock to start.

Apparently we're only protecting QBs.

We're about a week away from entire rosters changing their number over to a QB number to make it illegal for them to be tackled or blocked.

46 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Ugh. I’m not sure how many times the Eagles are going to get bailed out on this final drive against the Colts. They have given them so many calls, about half of them are legit but half of them are ticky-tacky.

54 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Flacco runs with ball, falls down on own inbounds, then randomly flips ball on the ground in celebration. Broncos do not pick up ball and return it, refs do not call fumble. What a sloppy, boring game.

55 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Chiefs SHREDDED Niners in first half. Niners start to mount furious comeback. Jimmy G injures his knee and CJ Beathard comes in next play to throw TD. EXCEPT for worst offensive PI call I’ve seen. Niners are shooting themslves in the foot, 147 yards of penalties so far, but this is ridiculous. Oh, Jimmy G taken on cart to locker room. Season might be done today.

57 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Just two weeks ago the Jets were 1. in DVOA. Now, with the Dolphins at 3-0 and the Bills crushing a Super Bowl contender on the road the Jets could be fairly ranked as the worst team in the AFC East. At best, third.

60 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

If anyone is looking for something to do rather than watch the Cowboys and Aikman, might I recommend reading the best superhero story ever written? It's called Worm (warning: this story is very, very long, like 1.5+ million words. I've read it through three times, and I never finished in less than a month. There is also a very good audio book for it, if that's your thing). It was published serially but it's complete. Or the in-progress serials The Gods are Bastards or A Practical Guide to Evil, which are also excellent!

61 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Wasn't KC the talk of the league this time last year? Alex Smith for MVP and all that?

What they're doing doesn't look sustainable. Their offense WILL regress somewhat as the weather changes and their defense has allowed 92 points so far.

62 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The offense was great all year. Ended the season 4th in DVOA. The problem, just like now, was the terrible defense (I believe they were 30th). I think the question this year is which one regresses more, the defense or the offense. The two units are at such extremes right now that's there's got to be some movement toward the middle from both.

63 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Right, I don't think they'll fall off a cliff (unless something happens to Mahommes), but slip enough that they lose some games say 35-28.

With the bad news on Garrapolo, the Rams may have the NFC West wrapped up by Halloween.

65 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Refs for all intents and purposes steal 3 pts from Seattle by overturning the interception based upon nothing at all. Video review confirmed that yes, it was in fact an interception but now, due to some bizarre NFL rule the return does not count.

Only in NFL universe does it not matter if they get the call right. It would be one thing if calling it incomplete had impacted the play, but the initial call during the play was an interception and that was only overturned after the play so the play should have stood.

Seattle went three and out and punted, but should have had the ball at Dallas 28 and a chance to kick a FG.

NFL rules have become idiotic to the extreme.

67 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I’m so tired of all of the Bears fans screaming that they should have drafted Mahomes over Trubisky based on a tiny sample size.

It would sure be nice if Trubisky wasn’t actively working to prove their point for them, though...

69 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

As if to accentuate how idiotic the NFL rules are nowadays, earlier Wilson got sacked and it was a textbook tackle. Roughing the passer was called. Just now, Barkevious Mingo grabs Zak Prescott and triple somersault body slams him into the ground. Prescott is very slow to get back up and probably should be checked for a concussion. I'm surprised the turf wasn't ripped wide open or a dent in the earth.
No penalty.

70 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Prescott with all the time in the world and can't make a play. There's hardly any pass rush whatsoever outside of that one Mingo sack. Yet his rating right now is 0.0 with a 0.6 ypa.

71 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I’m really tired of seeing Matt Nagy look confused and unprepared. On 4th and goal from the 2, he seems to want to go for it (which I like). The play clock winds down and he calls a timeout. The Bears come out to go for it and Arizona very predictably calls a timeout of their own. Does he dial up a different look? Go with the same play? Nope, he decides to kick a 20-yard field goal. WTF?

Right now the Bears are getting the ball back with 1:35 left. Think that timeout he wasted might be useful?

72 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The way the Raiders are blowing late-game opportunities and leads, they should consider playing in San Diego next year while Las Vegas gets ready.

77 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Chargers kick from the 8 down by 15 very early in the 4th. I know it's 8 yards out, but I think you gotta go for it there. You still need two TD even after the FG and, probably more importantly, you haven't been stopping the Rams much so you should be thinking you'll need TDs on every drive if you want to win.

81 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

There's a regular old roughing the QB call that would always have been roughing for the past 20 years, and here's Aikman and Buck jumping on the "bad calls" storyline. Fucking hacks.

89 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

4th and inches, moving the ball well, but kick the FG. Patricia of all people should know that’s why teams lose to the Patriots.

92 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Yeah, but He knows better than just about anyone the Pats D sucks so he maybe thinks he can afford to pass up the chance, because there will plenty more.

93 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

So did they ever fix the "fumble out the side of the end zone = touchback for the other team for some reason" rules problem this offseason?

103 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The best would be (At least on my view) that a fumble out of the end zone is returned to the original line of scrimmage, and a down is lost. Offense keeps possession (Unless it is 4th), but they are penalized for fumble in that scenario.

156 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I think that it is. If you fumble the ball from the 2 to the 1 and it goes out of bounds, you keep the ball at the two. If it goes one more yard and bumps the pylon, it's a turnover and a touchback. I think that's stupid.

It kinda made sense under the old, more soccer/rugby-ish rule where you always got the ball where it went out of bounds, because what else could you do when the ball goes into the end zone? But now that the rule has been standardized everywhere else, it should stay the same here.

105 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I feel angry seeing the Lions owner drinking a gas station bottle of water. I'm *not* a millionaire, yet I have the wherewithal to own and clean reusable nalgene bottles, thus I don't create more trash every fucking time I'm thirsty. Am I being unreasonable about this?

115 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I agree but I don't think owners don't make those kinds of decisions unless they're strongly invested. I think the Ford family has more urgent business than what water is served in the owner's stadium box.

121 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Wow, an insane rule I hadn't heard of before! The NFL is just full of creative genius. Now throwing a bad pass = intentional grounding? How bad does it have to be, exactly? Is overthrowing by 5 yards legal? 10? What? Can Brady reveal what route he thought the receiver was supposed to run to get the penalty reversed?

124 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

There are a dozen plays a game where this goes uncalled, then, if that's the rule. Depending on precisely how close the pass has to be according to the rule, it could include half of all incomplete passes.

133 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

"and he wasn't seriously under pressure. Textbook grounding."

You need that to be "was' for that to be textbook grounding.

Honestly I don't think Brady was aware of any pressure. Yes, one rusher got close to him just as he was throwing, but I didn't think that was intentional grounding. He didn't throw the ball solely to avoid a sack. He just threw it away and didn't think he was under pressure. Finding a pass rusher on the video tape that wasn't in Brady's view doesn't really change things for me.

139 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Watching live, I thought if he held it a beat longer the DE was going to get a strip sack.

There was pressure. I think some WR busted a route, but I’m not sure who he was supposed to be passing to, either.

142 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I always find it so amusing when the Patriots get called for something that every other player has been getting called for decades, and their fans are all apoplectic and like, "What? That's not even a penalty. When did that start being a penalty?"
About 40 years ago.

135 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Hardly.

Collinsworth always seems like he's pulling for the other team, to all fan bases. He was the guy tonight who brought up the possibility that the Pats might be much worse than expected. He didn't sound upset saying that. He sounded impartial.

146 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Hah! Ditto. I think he does a great job of not clowning it up too much.
Aside from that, how does this behavior extrapolate into the rest of his life? How does he eat, or drive or, God forbid, pee? He seems frustrated by it, but neither angry nor surprised. Dude, you just ripped your mailbox off its post like the terminator? How did you get your mail yesterday?
It kills me every time because it's so stupid yet he plays it straight.

130 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

Just 209 yards of offense and 13 first downs for the Patriots tonight - have to think those are lows in the Brady/Belichick era, at least going back to around 01-03

138 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

I'm sure the Pats have had a good number of games over the years where they've been less efficient per-play and committed many more turnovers than tonight - the numbers are just stark for such a historically productive offense. Certainly their defense was miserable tonight and couldn't keep the Lions off the field

151 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The Pats offense ran only 45 plays, which is an extremely low number, especially for a team that was behind in the game throughout and ordinarily plays up tempo regardless. For sure they look deficient at receiver (at least temporarily), and the determination to force-feed Michel was a little confusing, but, overall, the story of the game was that the defense was gashed every which way and could not get off the field.

This was a bad defense last year, and although there are some injuries, it looks as though it may only have gotten worse. It's going to take another MVP effort from Brady to drag this team near the Super Bowl.

131 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

The Pats' D needs a hard reboot. The secondary is the best of the three units and they're getting old. Hightower isn't showing the speed we're used to. The line got pushed around all night and left huge holes for the RBs of a mediocre offense.

Things are worse than I thought.

137 Re: Week 3 Open Game Discussion

This might have been the weirdest week ever in the NFL. Bills not only cover a 17 point spread but BLOW OUT the Vikings?? The Pats get stomped by a team that the Jets put up 48 pts on in Week 1??

Rams v Chiefs Super Bowl please, those are by far the two best and most entertaining teams out there right now