The week kicks off with Miami visiting Houston in a Brock Osweiler Revenge Game with serious playoff ramifications. Notable Sunday games include Ravens-Panthers, Packers-Rams, and Saints-Vikings, before a Patriots-Bills Monday nighter that could get ugly. Use this thread to discuss them all.
So, last week I learned Sunday Night Flex was a thing. That prevented the Rams from destroying the 49ers on prime time, and allowed the Chiefs to destroy the Bengals on prime time (Although the best way to flex would have been Ravens-Saints, but I still don't really know how it works). I wonder, does Monday Night Flex is a thing? Do they have to allow the Patriots to destroy the Bills on prime time?
All right, thank you. Sadly, no Monday Night Flex, so the Bills are going to get destroyed on prime time unless the Patriots collapse spectacularly.
Watching on Amazon for the first time. I like the UK announcers so far. It's a little rough around the edges still: they're often surprised about replays and graphics and have to react to them, they misidentified Adam Gase as Tannehill. But it's nice listening to announcers who seem to enjoy watching football, for a change.
That's strange, I'm in Chicago, watching on Amazon and I'm listening to Buck & Aikman.
The specifics depend on your platform, but it's under "Audio Languages" on mine. There's US English, UK English, Spanish, and one with Storm/Kremer that I'm trying out now
ETA: Wow, Storm and Kremer are informative! It's like having two engaged, professional journalists in the booth! The UK broadcast is less serious (possibly more entertaining) but still focused on the game, rather than talking about useless peripheral stuff. If you're drinking, UK audio all the way. If you're seriously into the game, Storm/Kremer.
Buck and Aikman are great if you're stupid or a masochist.
If I ever get to listen through Amazon, I'll have to tune to listen to Storm and Kremer. I'm just stuck with the Fox Mexico crew, which isn't too bad. Sadly, they pretty much suppress all audio from the game so that the English commentators (Buck and Aikman I guess) can't be heard.
Double post
Yeah Storm and Kremer are great though the broadcast sometimes seems to cut off their audio as they go to a commercial.
The British one is kind of surreal and I've watched a number of NFL games on the BBC in the past. It's a good time though.
No one can match the excitement of the Spanish announcers though.
The British broadcast also doesn't seem to distinguish between punts and field goals. And the concept of going for it on 4th and 4 when down 15 seemed completely crazy to them.
Also, apparently, to the Dolphins coaching staff.
I'm a Prime member and can't find it. How did you watch this game on Amazon? I only can find the Thursday night package.
Nevermind. When you said UK announcers, I thought you were talking about the game today in London. But now I see you meant the Thursday game.
Given The number of double teams ( or triple teams) Watt is getting, plus what they are doing to Clowney, I do not understand why Houston does not blitz more. Also, the officials suck, and that should have been a fumble by Brocktober.
Maybe the officials thought it was a pass. Thing is, the pass was going sideway (Or looked like it was going sideways to me), meaning it was a lateral, thus a fumble! Is more important to call Illegal Formation penalties in end-of-half kneelings though.
Perreira explained that that's not the case. He said if the defender hits the QB it doesn't matter if the pass goes backwards, what matters if it was a pass at all (and not a fumble). Basically if the defender hits the QB you can't have a lateral... or something like that. It's certainly a confusing and complicated rule, but based on what Perreria was saying it sounds like they got it right.
From what I understood, Pereira thought the call should've stood. He said if the defender causes the ball to go backward, not if he hits the QB, which changes things. Plus, it seemed Brock was trying to bring the ball back against his body, so the tuck rule would apply.
Tuck rule was repealed a few years ago.
I think he's referring to the new version of the "Tuck Rule".
The old one said the "in the act of passing" started with a forward motion of the passing arm, and ended when the ball was tucked against the body, or when the QB became a runner in some other way. The new one says the "in the act of passing" ends whenever the referee decides the QB started trying to tuck the ball. They both involve the concept of "tucking the ball". Hence the terminology confusion.
The old rule had the virtue of having a bright line distinction that made the calls clear in 99.9% of replays.
The new rule has the twin virtues of more fumbles and of letting fans whine a lot more. Not that clear and correct calls stopped whining in the past.
The entire concept that it's not a fumble because the QB didn't intend to fumble is madness.
To get at the truth, the ref looks the QB in the eyes, and asks, "were you trying to fumble, Aaron? Okay son, I believe you 100%." The eye test never fails.
Agreed, mostly. It's best to avoid rules based on intent unless intent is almost always going to be clear cut. But "in the act of throwing" isn't about intent at all. It's a rule to keep bad passes (for whatever reason) from being ruled fumbles based on a referee's whim, which would be terrible for the game.
We know pretty well when the act of throwing starts. But you've got to define the end of the act of throwing somehow.
The two main viable options are (a) when the QB has tucked the ball or otherwise become a runner rather than a passer, and (b) when the referee decides the QB has stopped this particular attempt to pass the ball, either intending to tuck the ball, to scramble away, or to cock his arm for another throw. Option (b) is all about reading intent.
If you don't want the referee making judgments about intent, then you should really be supporting the old version of the tuck rule.
I'm probably the only person in the world who thought he threw it backwards. Sure the defender touched him, but it wasn't that the defender made the ball go backwards, that was Brock throwing it backwards. Thus a fumble.
I also thought he threw it backwards
Watching live, I thought it was backwards. On replay, it definitely looked like he caught it in front of where the QB released it.
The end of the half was totally hilarious. And unnecessary. Apparently, according to the announcers here, the main ref is a rookie. With about 16 seconds left, Watson kneels the ball and everyone starts going to the locker rooms. However, there was an illegal formation penalty, which Miami can't decline, but more importantly, couldn't be glossed over with just 16 seconds left and would not have made any effect. So everyone had to go back to the sidelines, Watson had to kneel it again, then everyone raced to the locker rooms again,
I'd like to think it's the refs way of punishing the Texans for kneeling out with 20+ seconds and two time outs left.
Yes, there's a chance of a turnover etc etc. Who cares. Set up in shot gun, throw the ball deep downfield if the Dolphins play straight defence, throw it 20 yards deep if they're in prevent. You've got time for two or three plays. Try and make something happen.
I'm just disappointed they made the Dolphins come back on the field. They should have made the Texans line up and do it by themselves until they get it right.
Holy cow! Great catch by Nuk ... that is nullified because he pushed the DB.
Incredible catch by Hopkins... Didn't even come close to bobbling it or letting it hit the ground.
Hopkins makes a ridiculous catch and gets called for offensive pass interference. And it was a bogus call. There was also a penalty on the defense so offsetting.
It waa definitely correctlg callsd offensice pass interferebcem . Fruthermore, if there were offsetting flags, the play would just be replayed
Good decision to rely on the run then dial up a trick play. Putting the ball in Osweiler's hands hasn't been working.
Amendola with the TD pass.
Hey, I've seen that play before.
How come the Texans' LB and Safety on that side of the field hadn't seen that play? It wasn't like OBJ's pass wasn't shown a gazillion times.
#22 McDonald was the safety - he caught my eye a few times in a very bad way. Dude doesn't seem to understand what an assignment is and runs like a high schooler after everything that moves.
TJ McDonald is a Dolphins safety (and as far as I know an overpaid, not-very-good one); OP was talking about Texans in coverage on the Amendola touchdown pass. The linebacker who bit on the fake and couldn't get back in time was #49 Josh Keyes, a third year undrafted rookie who has been on rosters or practice squads in Tampa (twice), Kansas City, Atlanta, LA (Chargers) and Cleveland in that time. The Texans cut him in camp this year; he signed with the Redskins, who also cut him, and then rejoined the Texans at the start of this week. Tough to expect much more (or much of anything) from him. The safety who was nowhere to be seen was converted former 1st round CB Kareem Jackson (#25), who does not appear to be much better at safety than he was at corner, and is one of the several reasons for the general suckitude of the Texans secondary.
Thanks for the investigation!
The Dolphins got creative. Double Pass for a TD.
The double reception first to Grant then bounced 12 yards further downfield for Parker to catch was even better.
Probably not drawn up that way in the playbook, though.
Wow. I've seen plenty of deflected balls turn into completions, but I can't recall one ever flying that far down the field before being caught. Suddenly we're getting big plays left and right.
Pretty sure none was as crazy awesome as that one. I remember earlier this season, Ben Roethlisberger catched a tipped pass for loss of 1 (I still find that play incredibly funny). And I remember a Jags-Texans game (From 2010 or 2011) which came down to a Hail Mary. Won by the Jags when the Hail Mary was deflected ... into the hands of a Jaguars receiver.
Yeah rhat one went further up t e field. There waasanother one lind of similr wbere the ball got deflected back towards line of scrimmage and ended uo as touchdwon in a Raiders vs Steelers game in 1972 playoffs
All right ... that's ... crazy awesome ... DaVante Parker made a catch ... that was catched before handed then sent flying about 10 yards down field. That's some crazy stuff right there.
Osweiler is the luckiest schlub…
Hmm, I'm not necessarily opposed to that onside kick attempt. However, if you want to take a risk, I think you should just go ahead and go for that fourth and three a few plays earlier.
I was okay with the first field goal to make an 8 point game.
Even Aikman recognizes that kicking a field goal to make it a 12 point game is a subpar decision compared to going for it on 4th and 4.
Surprise onside kick called by Gase.
Didn't work, but good on him for trying to pull this out. Playing straight isn't likely to win the game, so I like the aggressiveness.
And one play (two plays?) later, Hopkins scores.
On the plus side, Hopkins would have scored on that play whether it was run from mid field or the Texans' 25.
Not that Gase is likely to view the incompetence of his secondary as a positive.
Dolphins kicking fg down by 15 instead of going for it on 4th and 4? SMH
Dolphins secondary with the penalty trifecta! Illegal contact, holding, and pass interference all on the same play!!
At least the final penalty (pass interference) prevented a touchdown.
Hey, that's better defense that what they've been doing for most of the game.
That was a really nasty hit to the head on the last play. Miami could have just let the clock run out without calling that play. I hope the WR isn't hurt.
Just read Will Fuller is out for the year with a busted ACL. That really sucks for everyone…
That offense can be unstoppable when Hopkins and Fuller are on.
This is a huge loss for Houston. Fuller had 11 TDs in 11 games with Watson. (Hopkins has 12 in 14 )
Fuller was like DeSean Jackson if he showed up for more than 4 games a year.
Hmm ... seems the Eagles struggle when they get close to the red zone. Not as bad as the Texans earlier this year, but it's close. A pick in the redzone, and another failed trip that ended in a field goal. That or the Jags are in gear again.
The Jags offensive strategy totally turned into "Hand it off, or fake the handoff and run the ball. Only throw screens and nothing else".
That Eagles pass rush is nasty. Also, I'm I the only one that thinks Michael Bennett looks totally hilarious with those kicker pads?
57 yards. Most of the time, I would say trying something like that, instead of going for it in 4th and 6 (which can be done), is dumb and bad. And this time it was no different. But Josh Lambo nailed that 57 yarder
You know, last year the Jags were known for a powerful ground and pound attack both during the start of the game, and to run out the clock. Was it all Leondard Fournette? Because, as of this writing, in this game, they have ran the ball 9 times, not counting the Bortles' scrambles. Yes, they are down, but why haven't they ran the ball a couple more times (Other than the fact that it is inefficient)?
Bizarre call on Bradham there - he is going to ground when Bortles slides, he leans back, does everything to back out of the tackle, extends his hands to cushion the impact, and doesn't make contact with the head.
How is that a penalty?
I am all in favour of the new player safety drive, but calls like that will just fuel the "Modern NFL is Flag Football" crowd.
Must be very rare for a 1-6 team to be favorites over a division-leading 4-2 team. That's the situation in the Giants-Redskins game today. I'm quite surprised, this Giants team is terrible.
When I used to gamble I had a rule never to bet on divisional games without specific reason, but yeah, that's crazy
Probably a lot to do with the Redskins being mediocre, despite their record. DVOA has them at 18th in the league while the Giants are 24th.
That's easy, the Snyder Redskins are well known for stumbling when they are supposed to be on a roll. They're probably lucky the Giants weren't having any of that.
Philip Lindsay's helmet tip just reaches his linemen's shoulder pads when they're standing up LOL
Well, in the very early going the Broncos are doing something to justify that 5th place DVOA ranking. Up 7-0. As great as the Chiefs have been, they are in a position where a drop in play could mean they might not win the division. The Chargers are only a game behind.
The Bears kicking woes continue as Parkey misses a 40-yard attempt and it wasn’t even remotely close. Ryan Pace spent serious money on him despite him not having much leg because he was supposedly so good from 40 yards and in.
Kevin Harlan is a fantastic PBP guy, he was born with the perfect voice for it. Pair him with Kremer or Storm and you've got an all-star booth! Dammit this will never happen.
I don't remember Rich Gannon being especially bad, but every time he chimes in today I mentally cringe.
Ravens just ran the same trick play punting on 4th and 1 that burned them last week. Only this time they ran it inside their own 20! Would've had a first down by 5 yards except for an illegal shift. Told y'all that play is undefendable.
WTF is with Denver's playcalling? 3rd and 2 on the KC 35 or so, and instead of running forward they lose 8 on a ridiculous slow-developing end around
At the time, I thought, "that could be the ball game", especially when the field goal team trotted out to attempt what was now an extra long field goal (missed, but not sure the game ends up much different if it's made).
Denver played KC tough, but KC's the better team and Denver couldn't afford that play call at that time. This was an opportunity to force KC to play from behind. Instead, it was Denver playing catch up all game.
I'm not even sure it was that horrible a call, I was just deep in homer-mode yesterday
Your first instincts were right. It was a horrible call.
That's almost the worst place on the field to call that play (second only to calling it inside your own 5).
It's also the worst down and distance for that play.
First two passes to Antonio Brown, wide receiver screens for loss or minimal gain. Second two passes to Antonio Brown on downfield patterns, big gain for first down, 43 yard touchdown. I suppose the screens may be ‘setting up’ the other plays, but please can the wide receiver screen be left to fade into obscurity?
As I understand it, the screen "should" be limited to when the defense gives it to you, it's not something that you should build an offense around.
It was half the entire Steelers offensive gameplan when Todd Haley was the OC. But it only works when the other team is playing Quarters or their CBs are too slow and you have great blocking wideouts.
I think the Steelers view the WR screen as a play that fits a similar role as the running game. As long as you get the right look for it, you can consistently pick up small chunks of yards to stay on schedule, and when you have a guy like AB, eventually he's going to make some poor corner blow a tackle and get a serious chunk of yards. That said, it's still overused in the Pittsburgh playbook.
Pretty sure Fitchner is trying to pull a page out of Haley's book, and set up a fake screen so that a receiver can get behind the entire coverage. Still, I hate wide out screens. In other news, Joe Haden has hands.
Man, this Chiefs-Broncos game looked promising early, but now the Chiefs are rolling up and down the field, it's 16-7, and it seems unlikely that Denver will get back into it.
Shows how much I know. Denver gets the ball back at their 25 with only 54 seconds in the half, but two big passes and some bad Chiefs defense gets them in the endzone.
The halftime highlights guys apparently agreed, as they almost didn't have any Broncos highlights, and all Bradahaw had to say was the "Broncos won't go down without a fight", presupposing they will go down. DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!!!!
The Bears defense is sackless through the first half and Trubisky is 5 of 13 for 117 yards, about 60 of which came from Cohen’s run after the catch on the 70-yard TD.
I know the Bears are up by 4, but this is not a good performance against the Jets by any means.
Once again, eschewing field goal and playing boldly is rewarded.
Browns look like a team that could be on the rise. Mayfield sometimes demonstrates that he is a rookie, but shows ability and potential to grow. Chubb appears to be a good running back. Garrett, Ward, and some others are talented young defenders. One more losing season and an influx of more high draft choice players could make them a contender.
I think Mayfield's biggest problems are the fact that he's a rookie and lacks NFL experience (You don't challenge Joe Haden, a guy that is pretty good against Go routes, with a Go route), and the fact that his wideouts don't help him with so many drops. They could be set at the QB position for years to come, which is a miracle.
As for the Steelers, I'm shocked by the fact they decided to go for it. Not only they got rewarded (Although that clock management at the end, and yet another screen pass that actually worked endangered that. Why not sneaking it?), but they have the opportunity to set up a double score and start to put the game away .... as long as the O doesn't fall asleep again.
Carolina have been starting Torrey Smith ahead of rookie DJ Moore all season. Smith is injured so Moore gets the start today, and he has 7 touches for 129 yards at half-time. Are you honestly telling me that they were better off starting Torrey Smith all this time?
Oh my god. NOW they call roughing the passer. It's literally fucking random. There is zero consistency.
ETA: it would be nice if the refs didn't call back every Broncos 20+ yard play with iffy penalties
Denver might have to score a TD on every one of their remaining possessions to have a chance in this game. They did well to force a punt on the first drive of the game, but since then they've shown no sign of being able to stop the Chiefs.
Does CBS have the F- production crew in KC? Earlier there was a graphic that said "Patrick Mahomes' 23rd touchdown. Ties Rich Gannon with 14". I don't have any idea what that was supposed to mean. Now in a graphic they unnecessarily abbreviate "games" as "GMs", which is also something totally different.
How about that. Bud Dupree (edge rusher) pretty much got tackled in the endzone by Desmond Harrison (A lineman). A hold was called, and it was a safety.
Followed by no Steeler catching or falling on the ball during the ensuing safety punt and the Browns recovering!
So how the hell is this challenge with a declined penalty gonna work in Det vs Sea?
In 50 years of watching football, I still learn new things. Like if the call is overturned you can go back and take the penalty you'd just declined.
What?!?! What the hell?!?!
You mean they can overturn calls now???
Just kidding; figured the old-timers had to stick together.
Although I never realized you had an option on penalties after a reversal. Cool.
Fun fact: you can also get timeouts back if a replay reversal result means you didn't want to have called it anymore (like if a pass completed in the middle of the field is changed to incomplete)
Browns miss extra point. Is kicking in general off this year? If there has been an analysis, I’ve missed it.
Kickers have a bad year in general. You know it's bad when even Justin Tucker misses an XP. At least some kickers are recovering (Boswell seems to be improving)
It only seems that way due to a few (okay a lot of) high profile misses. Overall, kickers are at the same percentages they have been the last several years: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/kicking.htm
There's a line of thinking that 20 yard extra points are like a golfer practicing 5 foot putts, usually made + a way for the player to notice they are off (even if the putt / kick is made, if it's off center the player adjusts). In this analogy 33 yard extra points are like 10 foot putts (not at all a guarantee). Therefore, kickers are struggling as they don't get their practice kicks anymore.
The Broncos declined a holding call to get a 4th and 6, rather than 3rd and 26. Even against the Chiefs that's not a good call.
Is Tarik Cohen high? The Jets punt and the ball lands at about the 10. He lets it bounce and kind of half heartedly swipes at it and touches it, then appears to start to turn away from it as the Jets converge. Then he incredibly luckily falls on it.
I have never seen a play like that in the NFL. I don’t understand how that happens. It’s like he thought “what is the dumbest possible thing I can do right now?”
Seahawks at their own 1 on fourth down, up by 14. Punter looked like he was supposed to take the safety, but instead sees open field and rumbles 11 yards for the first down to put the nail in the coffin on this dominant Seattle win.
Michael Dickson has some wheels.
Jon Ryan woulda lost a tooth
I'm guessing Baker Mayfield will be the winner of the Blake Bortles Garbage Performer fo the week. Was 17 of 29 for 111 yards, a pick and a TD before the 2 minute warning in the game.
Why have a kicker kick onsides? Why not just have your fastest guy do it?
The Broncos defense has greatly improved in this fourth quarter. They've repeatedly stopped the Chiefs. Problem is the Broncos have mostly been stopped themselves, so they never made much progress in closing the defecit. On the road against the 1. DVOA team I'd say this has been a pretty good overall performance by Denver. Unfortunately, when you have a 3-4 record a solid game that ends in a loss is still very bad for you.
Could the Bucs-Bengals game be headed to OT? I'm rooting for tghe Bucs in thsi one so I hope that, either they get to OT or Marvin Lewis plays it convervative and runs the clock out.
Looks like FitzMagic is back.
Just in time for Halloween!
Wow, Fitzmagic is back. The Bucs are back from 18 down to tie it up after Jameis is benched.
And what a ridiculous team the Bucs. Incredibly bad defense, but they reliably put up absurd passing yard. Jameis and Fitzpatrick have 472 yards combined in this one. If they had stuck with one QB for the whole season that guy would have a serious shot at setting the season yardage record.
The effort was nice. But the bad D showed up ... well ... A.J. Green is pretty good. Also, did a defensive Delay of Game just happened?!
He probably kicked the ball out of frustration, delaying the refs spotting it
Jameis may not yet have reached the end of the road, but he can see it from here.
There's little that's as frustrating as a talented quarterback who's also a headcase. Between Josh Freeman and Jameis, I've ground down a few molars.
The Rams field looks terrible, like embarrassingly bad. The NFL should be fined $50M payable to fans watching on TV
It's also a 7-0 home team that is being outdrawn by the road fans present for their 3-2-1 team.
If the Rams can't find fans in LA, the Chargers have no chance.
Today's a weird day. First, we had the Desomnd Harrison hold that resulted in a safety. Now, Josh Rosen gets flagged for Intentional Grounding in the EndZone, which is a safety. What's next, OPI in the endzone?
Mike "Heavy" Pettine
Oh yeah, real mature. (I bet the announcers giggle every time they say his name.)
Packers looking good against Rams, but Admiral Armbar is going to get caught with holding on a big play soon. He's already gotten away with one blatant hold.
Goff gets away throwing it away while still within the tackles. Should have been intentional grounding. Does that sort of thing go into the referee reviews? Just curious.
Nope, is a judgement call on the field.
Sorry. Phrased this badly. I was meaning how the referees are graded by the league after the game. I do know it's not a reviewable in-game call.
The Rams offense seems off. Which is VERY odd this season.
Also, they are in Los Angeles, yet the crowd is Packers biased!
FWIW, it's practically a home game for the Packers in Los Angeles. Not sure of the ratio of Packers vs Rams fans. But the Packers fans are definitely louder.
"I don't think you're going to see that call ever" -Aikman
We saw that exact call earlier today in the Broncos game
Aikman, he who retired due to concussions, also had a "great" comment when a DB went in low on an RB, a bit above the knees, and the RB essentially speared the incoming tackler's head with his helmet. Pretty damn blatant. The DB got up and was looking for a ref and tapping his helmet top, rightly so. No flag, which bugs me, but maybe someday they'll throw them fairly.
But Aikman, in all his wisdom, went on and on about what a great tackler he is and how other DBs aren't willing to sacrifice their bodies on plays like that. (remembering Deon Sanders?)
But of course there was no need to freakin' sacrifice anything, man. He made a good, low, clean shoulder hit and got head-butted for his efforts.
Grrrrr.
"I don't think we'll ever see someone climb to the top of Mt. Everest" -Aikman, probably. He's almost like a Simpsons character
The Rams O-Line, which has been dominant during the season, is now losing the trenches.
As I wrote that, the Rams called up a fake punt.
Mike Pettine is up for this, but maybe not Ron Zook-- that fake may be a game changer
You know, your great special tems just gifted you a first down following a fake punt, which means that trick won't work again. You should start to get 1st Downs on your own, otherwise that fake punt goes for naugh, like it just did.
After about a billion years, the Niners get a turnover, thanks to Josh Rosen. Maybe Arizona will realize sending a rookie straight into the fray is ... not ... a good idea. Even if Ben Roethlisberger can prove otherwise, it's not always smart
So ... How many safeties today? 3?
packers should let them score
rodgers wont have a chance now
How is it that a game in the modern NFL doesn't have over 10 combined points by half time?
They still lead by 2, but can't help but feel the Packers just wasted a near-heroic 1st half effort by their defense.
GB is breaking out the Iowa State/Big 12 defense I've been waiting to see more of in the NFL in this one: play 6 DBs on every down, dare the Rams to run the ball, and stop them anyway when they do. It's been a really admirable effort so far, even on that TD drive the Rams needed a couple very slim margin-of-error plays to get the ball downfield. I just don't know if they can keep it up in the 2nd half...
Today's Packers@Rams reminds me of the 2014 NFC Championship against Seattle. Defense playing mostly great. Offense is inconsistent, but making plays against an excellent defense. Special teams screwing up. I'm not hopeful, even though the Packers are ahead at the half.
Ugh yeah, hopefully the 2nd half is more 2010 NFC Championship than 2014 NFC Championship. I'd also settle for the offense coming back to life
It is surprising they ran pretty much All Dime and Dollar through the game. It is impressive that it worked. Gurley couldn't get too many yards.
Amazing job by the Packers defense to keep Jared Goff hovering a bit below 50% completions (Although the drops by the Rams receivers help), and making Todd Gurley a non factor on the ground.
That didn't last.
You know, with a D-Line which has Aaron Donald and Ndamukong Suh as your interior linemen, I would expect your run defense to be pretty good. But somehow, the Rams are 24th in Run defense DVOA. How?
Partly the linebackers aren't very good. Partly by design as they overplay the pass because they're less bothered about stopping the run.
They won't beat the Packers by stopping the run. They will by making Rodgers uncomfortable. That's what Donald and Suh are best at.
Rosen's season has not been that great, but this last quarter was pretty good for him. Hell of a pass to tie up the game, and hell of a lead taking (And could be game winning) drive.
And the Niners center botches the snap, sends it over C.J. Beathard and he can't send it out before the game clock reaches 0.
And so starts the movie. With 2 minutes to go, Aaron Rodgers has to lead a comeback drive. I wonder if it is the same ending as every other time?
EDIT: Welp, wrong movie. Ty Montgomery fumbled the ball, so game is over.
WTF? Why did Montgomery even take the ball out of the end zone? Even without the fumble, you take one extra play from Rodgers. STUPID!!!!!
And waste the 2 minute clock stop. Incredibly stupid.
That's at least partially on the coaches. They HAVE to tell Montgomery that he does not return the ball out of the endzone under any circumstances. He only made it to the 20 when he fumbled it anyways, so even if he hung on he would have cost them five yards AND an offensive play.
According to McCarthy, the plan was to take the touchback. But apparently Montgomery didn't get the memo or didn't have the sense to just kneel the ball. Or to hang on to the football.
Montgomery alleged knew and decided to do his own thing. He had thrown a fit during the previous offensive series because he was taken out during that series. He is supposed to be the experienced veteran RB. He's acting like a child. I can't believe it's midafternoon in Green Bay and no word on his being cut.
Fair play to Gurley for not scoring then when he's chasing the all time td record.
That's a well coached team and a great play. Extra Bosco for Gurley tonight.
More than anything else, that play by Gurley makes me think these Rams deserve to be Super Bowl favorites.
That's just a super smart, unselfish football play by a team leader. You know everyone in that locker room recognizes what Gurley did there.
Yes, they probably should have lost this game (thanks, Montgomery - your football smarts and decision making's maybe not up to the quality of Gurley's). Odd are they'll drop a few before the season's over. But if they're playing that smart and disciplined in October, I like their chances in January.
I like when players, knowing that a score gives the ball back to the opponent or, alternatively, in the middle of a blowout, stop short of the goal line to not give the ball back/not embarrass the opponent with another score, so that the clock can be run down.
On the other hand, I still wonder what Ty Montgomery was trying to do. Maybe he was trying to make it easier for Rodgers (But taking the knee still makes it easy for 12), or maybe he was giving the middle finger to McCarthy for not giving too many snaps. In either case, fumbling the ball got the opposite reaction of Gurley not scoring to run the clock. EVERYONE, bar none, that was related to the Packers got mad at him and threw him under the bus. When you get a guy like Aaron Rodgers pissed, you did something bad.
The thing is, running the ball out was a wrong decision even if he didn't fumble it.
There were no results, to my mind, that were better than taking a knee on that kick off. Even taking the ball all the way back for a TD probably isn't the right decision, as it gives Goff the ball and the chance to win the game.
I think the highest win probability for the Packers was to give Rodgers the chance to move the ball into close field goal range and milk the clock for a last play field goal. Maybe the stats don't back that up, but it sure looked to me that the Packers were in an ideal situation until Montgomery tore out of the end zone.
Montgomery had three offensive touches for 8 scrimmage yards in that game, so he was just frustrated and trying to make a play. He's dropped from last year's starter to this year's changeup back and so I think he was just looking for an opportunity to prove himself since he wasn't getting the ball much on offense.
I've mentioned in past threads here that I think it makes sense to use an established starter rather than a role player for kickoff returns. A player with a limited role may try to force things on the kickoff since he doesn't get many chances to prove himself and earn a bigger role, whereas a secure starter can just kneel the ball knowing that he'll get plenty of other opportunities to make a play.
I'd love to know how many people in the stadium, in fact let's expand that to watching this game anywhere, thought that Montgomery would bring kickoff out if it made it to the endzone. With the clock at 2:05 you essentially have an extra timeout, one more timeout and Aaron Rodgers, only down by 2. What on earth was he thinking?
I don't know about "in the stadium." But I was worried Zuerlein would kick it short just to force the extra seconds off the clock and happy when he kicked it deep. I was stunned when Montgomery took the ball out of the end zone. He's on the team because he's the experienced veteran. That play compared to the smart play by Gurley soon after shows the big difference between a disciplined team vs one that isn't. McCarthy is now officially on the hot seat, especially when they could easily go 1-3 in the next month (@NE, Miami, @Seattle, @Minn).
Whatever makeup/special effects they used on that SNF football singer (Carrie Underwood) makes her look not human during that weird intro thing they do.
As my friend commented, "she looks like she should be hot, but she isn't."
I hope I never see Ty fucking Montgomery returning a kickoff in a Packer uniform again.
Ok, I'm simply getting used to the Saints running 2 QB sets. But they just ran a 3(!) QB! I still think both the Saints and Ravens are trying to set up a double pass, but at this point it is becoming so painfully obvious that when they execute, someone will be covering the QB and that guy will be crashing down.
Apparently, Drew Brees has a superhero patch on his uniform because he won the Walter Payton award.
What's this, a Steelers game? How you get back to back penalties?
About damn time someone went for it on 4th and 2 at the goal line.
Day of the trick play? First the Saints run they multiple QB sets, then the Vikings counter with a Flea Flicker.
Broncos threw an int on a flea flicker earlier
Marcus Williams is just getting destroyed there.
And Dan freaking Bailey just missed the extra!
Yep. Kamara took his eyes off the ball and that made him drop it. He had nothing but green grass in front.
Correction to my post above, it was P.J. Williams the one that was abused in the 1st half. But it was him who catched what appeared to be a Kirk Cousins .... Shovel Pick? Not sure what was the idea of that pass.
So according to the advertisement, Aaron Rogers fantasizes about being alone in a stadium with a 10 y/o girl in a Packers jersey? Okay , CREEPY
He's not fantasizing his Bose headphones are just so good at noise cancelling that he can single out the 10y/o girls in a stadium full of Bears fans.
You see, I thought he was going to play Thanos in the next Avengers movie and the Bose headphones were his infinity gauntlet.
He is somewhat more than human.
Harbaugh-ulary batteries
Without the PAT miss earlier, a 2-pt conv there makes it a one score game
Big home game tonight for the Bills! At 2-and-5 their season is at risk of slipping away, but a win tonight would claw them back to within two games of New England for the division lead and might just salvage their playoff hopes.
This could be a trap game for New England, who after 4 straight wins might be caught looking ahead to next Sunday night's match up against Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. That could be a mistake against a desperate division rival led by a wily veteran QB who might just be able to exploit a Patriots defense that has looked vulnerable this season.
Is anybody buying any of this????
Well, Bill Belichick has lost games because he outsmarted himself.
This game will probably reach 50 points .... by one side alone.
So Brian Hoyer under center because Brady's due to lose one to the Bills? That might make it interesting ...
3 things about this MNF game. First, somehow it is not a blowout yet. Second, the Bills are running 80% Wildcat plays. The first couple worked, but the Pats catched up. Third, Tom Brady doesn't seem as accurate as he normally is.
Buffalo has a good defense. Their offense will do nothing, the pass rush will get tired, Brady throws like crazy. This is not a new movie concept.
I get a lot of NE games in my area, and Brady hasn't been all that accurate this year, period. Except the KC game. He was accurate then.
No one mentions it, but he's really been below his normal level this year.
He's only 9th in DVOA/DYAR through Week 7, which is fine in isolation I guess, but for Brady is a definite drop-off.
He didn't have Edelman for four games (9/10 to him tonight), Gronk's been hurt, Gordon is still only a part-timer and there's a huge talent drop after that.
Brady has definitely slipped this year.
* More off-target throws even when not under pressure (missing White 5 feet short when White was open at the goalline for a highly-likely TD was particularly egregious).
* More bad decisions (like that lame duck floater to White in the right flat that was lucky to have not ended up as a pick-six)
* More throws that while on-target are just a bit short (like the long one early on that Gordon dropped -- while he should have had it, if Brady had another 2 or 3 feet on the ball it was likely a long gainer or a TD).
I'm thinking he hasn't yet internalized he can't get away with arm-only throws the way he used to. In consecutive weeks he's tossed a lame duck to the flat when he couldn't set his feet.
I always respect your comments and I haven't seen every single throw this season plus I missed one of the early games where Chris Hogan was his #1 (Hogan is a nice zone beater but...). There may have been a few uncharacteristic throws and he has been short a few times (that wild Gordon TD). But I've also seen him make downfield throws with touch and pace and even a few pinpoint completions where he was being tackled. My biggest concern would be that he wears down over the course of the season as no 42 year-old body heals like a 25 year-old body, no matter how much avocado ice cream you pump into it.
The Michel pick and the investment in the O-line probably signal that Belichick is trying to lighten the workload. I'd say that he's still top five in the league with his ability to read D's compensating adequately for whatever he's lost in athletic ability. He's also not in the situation of someone like Manning with the profound injury history.
I'm not saying he can't throw and has been reduced to Pennington-hood.
I think do he's lost something from the arm, though. He can still throw lasers but more than ever he has to have his feet set and step into the throw. I think everything flows from that. I don't think he's processed that he doesn't have the zip he used to, especially when throwing flatfooted. After all, if you have 17 years of game experience and honed reflexes saying the ball will go to X and will take T seconds to do so, when that T is suddenly a little longer and/or that X isn't quite as far away, you have to fight those 17 years of instincts and relearn what the new X and T are.
Hmm ... that SHOULD have been Intentional Grounding. Brady looked like he was still in the tackle box (although the O-Line moved out of the way) and the ball didn't got to the LOS, and there was nothing but Linemen to where the ball was thrown.
He took the snap between the hashes and was well outside them when he threw the ball.
NWE showing completely vanilla play calling. Half their plays seem to be White flairs or WR screens. Seems as if they think they can just win by showing up— of course given their records maybe they are right.
Buffalo got points! Just 3, but is something
That drive looked non-terrible.
And Ghost missing that one means is still a 1 possession game. Which, since is the Bills, is close to unsurmountable.
(Double Post)
I'd be more interested in this game if Allen (or Petrrman!) was playing, but it's probably instructional for Josh to watch a replacement-level professional show him what QBing looks like
Not sure if anyone would like to watch The Peter Man ever throw a football again. At least Anderson is keeping it as close as interesting as a Bills-Patriots game can be.
Good discussion in the booth about why the Bills kept Peterman instead of grabbing Anderson in the off season, then letting Allen develop behind him. Week 1: we're going to protect Allen! Out trots Peterman. Week 2: never mind. What part of Peterman's performance was unpredictable to Bills' management?
Mind you, could ask the same about why the Browns kept Hue, about why the Jags kept (extended!) Bortles. Hope springs eternal.
What ... a ... Block! Got flagged, because it was illegal, but a hell of a block.
That drive had a lot of promise.
What's this, Browns vs. Steelers? How is that you get penalty (The block) after penalty (Pass Interference on Kelvin Benjamin) after penalty (False Start on a punt) after penalty (Julian Edelman calling for a fair catch, then blocking a gunner)?
Is Shady Ok? He seems to be missing holes on nearly every run. Sure, the Pats Front is performing fairly good, but still. It really seems that the most efficient strategy would be to just let Anderson throw the ball.
So I ignored this game to do other things in my life expecting it to be a blow out. How have the Pats managed to score so little?
Hard to say sure, but factors probably contributing:
high winds
no power back for the Pats
Bills playing tough D at home.
The same reason the Bills have scored more than 3 points: Nobody knows.
I haven't been following either but the Bills do have a good defense. DVOA ranks them 6th, and that might be underselling their current form a bit since they were terrible the first few weeks but have greatly improved ever since.
Ok, that Gronk catch was VERY, VERY close. It looks like his foot hits just a bit out of bounds, but I don't think they will overturn that one.
I've quit predicting what replay will or wont do anymore.
Agreed. They should just flip a coin, it would be much quicker and only a little less accurate.
Certainly there are (and always will be) some plays that are so close that a replay review might as well be a coin flip. This play was one of those. (Did his second foot hit on the line? If so, did it touch in bounds first?)
The vast majority of replays give a clearer signal than this one. One inch either way and this replay would have had zero controversy, and would have been much better than flipping a coin. Of course, three inches either way and the refs would have had very little chance of getting the call wrong in the first place, and a replay would have been unnecessary.
Ok. According to the commentators, after watching the NFL rule book. The ball has to cross the LOS if the QB throws it away outside the tackle box. But that pass was about 4-5 yards away from the LOS.
Brady literally has different rules enforced, from what I can tell. TBF, they seem to be giving Anderson the same leeway. But it's nothing close to what the rules actually are.
It doesn't need to pass the line of scrimmage. Announcers get that wrong all the time.
It does need to cross the line unless a defender affects the path of the ball.
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/intentional-grou...
The refs apply the "at the line of scrimmage" part of the rule to mean the QB threw the ball downfield towards the line of scrimmage, not just at his feet.
They have for years and they have consistently.
If the Bills want this. they really need to allow Anderson to throw the ball, and he must be accurate too.
Did they really aligned with their tackles spread out, only to fold them back?
There is your ball game, and your blowout too.
Well there is the cover.
I was just gearing up to post that Anderson has been solid despite the lack of talent around him.
Then that happened.
I still think he's been decent. The rest of that offense is just garbage though.
McDermott really is trying to win with a 2005/6 Bears plan in a 2018 world.
Agreed on Anderson being decent - The Pats have stopped the run pretty dead after the first two drives, but the Bills have moved the ball a bit in the second half mostly on the strength of the short passing game, and the Bills have some of the worst receivers recently assembled on a football field. I think if the Bills want to maximize their wins they'll start him the rest of the way. They've got late season home games against the Jets, Dolphins & Lions that are all winnable if they play like this on offense and get a couple mistakes on the other side.
With respect to the Pat's - a really nice low variance game plan to take away the chance for the Bill's defense to win the game via pass-rush or INT. But the Pat's really don't execute that type of game nearly as well without Michel (or Jeremy Hill from before he got hurt). They desperately need to find a backup power HB, because Patterson just isn't good enough coming downhill to make the PA vertical pass game work. It was also an interesting choice to have Gronk in blocking most of the game in a game where running wasn't very effective, it did appear to help slow the Buffallo pass rush but didn't totally neutralize it while sacrificing a potent downfield weapon - I think if they had foreseen the Buffalo offense not totally imploding via turnover like they have about half the time this year they might have rethought that approach.
They've done that with Gronk quite a bit this year. I think the back has really limited his explosiveness plus they want to control the number of big hits he takes.
Well, now Anderson got hurt ... all roads lead to Nathan Peterman. Well, all roads in Buffalo anyway.
Well at least peterman didnt throw an interception in his appearance.
LeSean McCoy carries the ball like if didn't care at all. He grabs the ball with one hand and just goes ... like ... how that hasn't resulted in a fumble yet?
Have you ever had the opportunity to shake an NFL player's hand? I shook Ed McCaffery's hand in either the '97 or '98 victory parade, and his hand ENGULFED mine. Professional athletes are a different species.
I would imagine that would be particularly true with skill players (hand size wise)
Well the linemen are just humongous in every way
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228 comments, Last at 30 Oct 2018, 6:03pm