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Week 9 Open Game Discussion

It's a milquetoast slate of games in the NFL this week, with only four contests featuring two teams at .500 or better. The action kicks off with the 1-6 Raiders traveling across the bay to face Jimmy Garoppolo C.J. Beathard Nick Mullens and the 1-7 49ers in one of San Francisco's few realistic chances to get a win and get out of the top overall draft pick. Notable Sunday games include Steelers-Ravens, Chargers-Seahawks, the Packers-Patriots Sunday nighter, and the biggest game of the week, the undefeated Rams visiting the 6-1 Saints. Use this thread to discuss them all.

Comments

259 comments, Last at 06 Nov 2018, 12:58am

1 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 7:28pm

Anyone else is here to see T.O. get his HOF Ring of Excellence? Because that seems to be the only interesting thing that's going to happen in this game, other than some Grudenisms post game and the Niners giving up a thousand sacks ... even though the Raiders don't have a pass rush.

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14 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 01, 2018 - 10:15pm

Wow, apparently T.O. only spent three years in Dallas? It felt more like seven at the time.

Also, it's amazing that I can do a search for "to stats" and google knows exactly what I mean

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2 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 8:41pm

Look at that, Nick Mullens scored a TD. Then again, the Oakland D just left #15 alone on his own.

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3 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 01, 2018 - 8:42pm

Being forced to start Mullens might cost the 49ers come draft day.

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4 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 01, 2018 - 8:57pm

Not that often for there to be a starting QB whom probably 90% of NFL fans have never even heard of.

Anyway, on paper this is obviously not a good game. Still, I'd rather see a tight game between terrible teams than a blowout between the two best teams in the league. So hopefully this will be close.

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5 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:00pm

I was going to ask "How the Niners are moving the ball so well?". Then I saw that the Raiders are in the bottom 5 in defensive DVOA, 29th to be specific.

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6 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderfan // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:01pm

Streaming this on Amazon with Storm Kremer in audio. Unfortunately they are no better than the terrible twosome. Interestingly, the stream is about five seconds ahead of the tv.

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12 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:45pm

Yeah they've been pretty bland so far. They still have a higher ceiling than Bu/kman, who are definitely who we think they are.

Either of them could be an A-level color person, but Kremer (I think) just doesn't have the voice for play by play.

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7 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:05pm

Dang, that pass was nearly picked, nearly caught twice and then fell incomplete.

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8 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderfan // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:07pm

Pretty clear which team has the talented offense minded coach. Sucks that it is not the Raiders.

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9 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:18pm

The Raiders just burned a time out before 3rd & 23, and came back with a bubble screen for 4 yards. Go Gruden!

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11 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:32pm

Todd Haley is mind controlling Jon Gruden and making him call screens.

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10 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:29pm

Usually, passes get deflected out of the receivers hands into the DBs. This time, ti was the other way around.

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13 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 01, 2018 - 9:50pm

Anybody know why Romo isn't announcing any game this weekend? I haven't been able to find anything about his absence, but he isn't listed for any of CBS's games.

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15 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 01, 2018 - 11:01pm

So who's the backup to the backup to the backup? Because the 49ers might as well put that guy in the game right now.

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20 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Bryan Knowles // Nov 02, 2018 - 3:43am

Today? It was...C.J. Beathard! He was healthy enough to dress, just not to start. Normally, it would be Tom Savage, but they cut him when Beathard was ruled healthyish.

Because a 75% Beathard is better than a 100% Savage.

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26 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 02, 2018 - 9:19am

Well, it's hard to know exactly which Tom Savage you're going to get on a given day. At his best, he fumbles a lot but at least he doesn't get hurt. At his worst, he fumbles a lot and also gets a concussion.

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16 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 01, 2018 - 11:20pm

Can't wait to hear Gruden's assessment of his team's performance.

Or will he just cackle evilly and proclaim, "The first pick is mine! All mine!!"

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17 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 01, 2018 - 11:35pm

Ok, so who had mullins on their fantasy team?

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18 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Dan // Nov 02, 2018 - 2:16am

Me.

Picked him up in a best ball superflex dynasty league.

It's a pretty awesome format, actually.

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21 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 02, 2018 - 3:58am

Mullens was started jn mt superflex lesgue by someone

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27 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Vandal // Nov 02, 2018 - 9:41am

I did.

2QB league, and the proud drafter of Andrew Luck, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Since I dropped 3 of those guys, and I traded for Mayfield, I needed a QB to start with Mayfield this week. Mullen it was, as there were literally ZERO QB's on the WW.

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19 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Leo_Nomellini // Nov 02, 2018 - 3:16am

The Raiders didn't need to travel across the Bay, to get to Santa Clara from Oakland you just head south on 880. Levi's Stadium is just about the same distance from the Town as from the City.

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22 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 02, 2018 - 4:00am

Pick was Raiders 35, 49ers 3
Overshit that a kittle as final score waas 49era 34, Raiders 3

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23 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mr Shush // Nov 02, 2018 - 6:01am

I only watched the highlights, but Mullens actually looked quite good. Obviously there were plenty of classic Shanaclan PA rollouts leading to wide open receivers, but he also looked genuinely accurate on more difficult throws, hitting receivers in stride, sometimes in fairly small windows, sometimes under pressure. Is that purely a function of selection bias, or did anyone who watched the whole thing get the same impression?

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24 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mike B. In Va // Nov 02, 2018 - 6:39am

I thought he looked pretty decent, with Shanny giving him a lot of half-field reads with clearly defined options, like he did with Cousins in the beginning.

Also, the Raiders suck. I mean, their D is really, really, bad. Undisciplined and uninspired, in what has to be the easiest road game for traveling on Thursday night this year.

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28 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 02, 2018 - 10:29am

You could tell he was a rookie - on a short week of preparation, no less - in the amount of time it took him to get the offense out of the huddle. That left him continually pressed for time trying to make his pre-snap reads. I can only recall one delay of game penalty, but the refs may have been being kind to him, because there were at least a half dozen more when the snap was borderline late (based on the TV clock).

There was also one weird false start on the Center, which Mullens immediately took responsibility for (you could see him clearly saying "that's my fault" afterwards). That's almost certainly just a prep time issue, and I really liked how Mullens handled it.

Once the ball was snapped, he looked good, but his first read was almost always open. And he probably made a few throws into tight windows, but more often than not he had a fairly generous sized window to throw into. Sometimes the window had a 5 yard radius.

Another positive is that I can only recall one throw that he forced into a situation he shouldn't have, and that one went for a huge gain when Kittle made a crazy one handed catch to deny the Raider safety a sure interception. But again, I didn't detect many situations where Mullens was forced to make tough decisions.

All in all, I was impressed, and wondered why the coaching staff has been sending Beathard onto the field. Hence my earlier comment about Beathard's injury forcing them into playing the guy who's going to cost them on draft day. But again, any NFL roster QB should be effective against a college defence, and I'm not sure Oakland's D last night was playing up to the standards of even a Division 1 defence.

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30 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 02, 2018 - 10:57am

I thought the only really bad throw he had was the one into the end zone before the second touchdown. That definitely could've been a pick. But the one to Kittles was a sweet dart. Kittles did make a very tough one handed catch, but the ball was right on him, chest high, in a tight window. And there was no safety behind him to pick it, which is why he was able to split the defenders on either side of him and run fifty yards with it. If a safety had been in position for a pick, he would have blasted Kittles before he secured the ball.

All in all, it Mullens was the beneficiary of some atrocious defense. He got Grudenized into greatness for a night. But he made at least four or five tight throws, and a few other good throws with dudes in his face. One was a sidearm completion on a screen when the defender got to him quicker than he expected, and Mullens threw it around him and on the money.

He definitely had the grasp of the offense, and he exhibited accuracy, with only a couple of throws being off target when they shouldn't have been. The only question is whether he can do it under fire against a legitimate NFL caliber defense.

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34 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:49am

We might be thinking of different Kittles plays. I recall the one you're talking about. I'm talking about the other one, where the Safety was already in catch pose to make the interception and Kittles reached out to snag, with one hand, a ball that was too far out in front of him, stealing it from the Safety.

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44 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 03, 2018 - 11:37am

I'm thinking of the one Kittles caught over the middle and ran fifty yards down inside the ten. There was no safety behind him on that one. It was clear sailing into that long run. I don't remember the other one.

The one I'm talking about was the one the that Collinsworth called a bad play design because they ended up with multiple receivers in close proximity to one another over the middle.

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48 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Theo // Nov 03, 2018 - 3:00pm

You guys are talking about the same play.
The ball was a bit high and n front but Kittles made a great catch. Pre snap Kittles didnt seem to know his route, so maybe thats why he ended up in the same area as wr #10.
Thought the safety made a bad play on that one.

The throw before the second TD was pretty bad across the endzone. The defender almost picked that.

All in all, I was impresses by Mullens. He looked accurate most of the times, poised and in control.
I watched the Jax Eagles game todat too and Mullens is much, much better already than Bortles.

The play design and the Raiders (lack of) defense helped too.

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49 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 03, 2018 - 5:08pm

My memory may be failing me. Wouldn't be the first time. I was sure there was a defender settling in to make the pick as Kittles just got a hand far out enough to pull it in. No, the defender didn't tackle Kittles, whose route was a couple of yards in front of him. He was getting ready to make the pick, and was flat footed as Kittles crossed his face.

Unless I imagined it all. Didn't think I was drinking anything that good Thursday night!

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62 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:40pm

I went back and looked at it. Maybe we were both wrong. I remembered three DBs around Kittles, but there were actually four. The one behind might have picked it if Kittles hadn't got a hand on it, but looking at the slow mo from the back side, the db appeared to be out of position with his momentum taking him in the opposite direction of the ball's flight. To pick it he would've needed Kittes not to touch it, then he'd have needed to make a one handed catch with his left hand while moving away from the ball. Of course, if Kittles tips it up, then all bets are off. Anything might happen then.

It was definitely a dangerous throw, but I did think it was a good throw either way. He put it in front of Kittles, chest high, where he could catch it in stride. Kittles was late on his break, not seeming sure where to go, which I think is why he couldn't get two hands on it.

All in all, it was a darn good needle thread that was probably more likely to be incomplete than either complete or intercepted. From a kid making his first start, I would say it was a pretty good throw. And Kittles made it a harder catch than it needed to be by coming late out of his break. Mullens definitely threw it to where Kittles was supposed to be, and he put it in between the defenders on either side and in front of Kittles. And in the slow mo you can see that Mullens had to throw it from an imperfect arm angle due to the rush in front of him. I'm definitely impressed by the throw and catch.

Here is a link to the replay from two angles.

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/1058177658817638400?s=19

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43 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mr Shush // Nov 02, 2018 - 4:57pm

Put it this way: as a Texans fan, I have seen my fair share of quarterbacks with minimal experience and limited pedigree. I don't think I've ever seen any of them do things as good as the good things I saw from Mullens on the highlight reel.

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25 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 02, 2018 - 8:47am

Huh, I never woulda' guessed 15 years ago that Brother Jay would be the marquee name in the family.

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29 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 02, 2018 - 10:31am

Gruden the Elder is so much more entertaining to watch on the sideline than he is to listen to in the booth.

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32 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:33am

Absolutely true. I had great fun trying lip-read his tirades on the sideline while the Raiders were getting shellacked. At one point he was clearly saying, "we can't f---ing block anybody!". Hey, the first step to solving a problem is identifying it, right?

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35 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:49am

If he had brought that colorful candor to the broadcast booth, I would have contributed to a Go Fund Me to pay the FCC fines.

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31 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:09am

What's funny is that Mullens will keep the story about this game from being Gruden. This game was everything many of us expected from the guy who said so many stupid and wrong things while he was an analyst. This entire first season couldn't be much more of a disaster. And for all the talk of how the picks he has accumulated have set the organization up nicely, it's not like he did anything special. Anyone could've traded away the teams best players for picks. And while he benefited nicely from.Jerry Jones being so very bad at football, it's not like he got a huge haul out of Mack. He had to give a good pick back to Chicago in that deal. And it's very possible that Chicago's picks end up low in the first round. They are not guarantees of great players, especially with Gruden picking. And even if they hit on those picks, there is no indication that Gruden won't end up getting the least out of whatever talent he has. By my eye, whatever record Gruden ends up with in a given season, it sure looks like a competent head coach would get at least a couple more wins out of them.

Imagine thinking he was worth a ten year contract. That's just bananas.

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33 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:47am

It's really an awful situation for the NFL. Yes, getting Las Vegas to build a 1.8 billion dollar palace solves the (quite literal) Oakland stadium shithole problem nicely, but having an owner an owner in his early 60s taking a team to a new market, while either hugely incompetent, or even perhaps suffering from significant mental illness, is really bad. Maybe the league figures they can sell 50k-plus tickets a week to visiting team fans, for a highly probable victory, and that was better than, heaven forbid, the NFL building its own stadium.

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37 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 02, 2018 - 12:07pm

Maybe the league figures they can sell 50k-plus tickets a week to visiting team fans, for a highly probable victory, and that was better than, heaven forbid, the NFL building its own stadium.

The problem is they actually need to sell 100k+ such tickets every week in the southern California market, because the Rams and Chargers also need 50k road fans per week to sell out.

Pretty much all phases of the LA movement swap has turned into shit for the NFL. They got what they had coming.

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39 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 02, 2018 - 12:18pm

At least the Rams are quite good, and the Chargers highly competitive! How many Johhny Walker Blues do you need to get into the gullet of some degenerate from Denver or K.C., to get them to pay to watch da' Raidahs!?

(edit) Now that I think about it, that's the marketing plan. The casinos buy the tickets, and then comp them to the degenerate dolts from the visiting team cities who will reliably lose 20k plus at the tables or slots, in a couple of days. Are there enough degenerate dolts? Ya' got me.

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40 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 02, 2018 - 1:09pm

Are there enough degenerate dolts with enormous bank accounts? Is this America?

USA! USA! USA!

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41 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 02, 2018 - 1:19pm

This was the new alternative NFL business model that I suggested in another thread last week. Now, if gambling and casinos are allowed around the new LA stadium, we've got our answer. That area isn't on Indian land by chance?

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42 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 02, 2018 - 1:52pm

No, that's the Redskins.

And maybe the Jaguars.

\Pakistan was technically independent of India when Shahid Khan was born, but hadn't been for long.

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45 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 03, 2018 - 11:53am

I can imagine that happening to a certain extent, but casinos are loath to send money players off property for five hours. That's why they have their own entertainment, which then exits customers right into the casino.

I'd also think that a perennial laughingstock football team is not going to be a big draw in a city with more entertainment options per square inch than almost anywhere in the world. They may well sellout thanks to corporate buys, but I'd be prepared to see "sellouts" with an enormous number of empty seats if I were them. And that's a big deal, as concessions are every bit a part of profitability as ticket sales. You need people to show up and buy those five dollar hot dogs and ten dollar beers.

Then again, it shouldn't be hard to make shitpiles of money (especially as compared to being in Oakland) with just a decently competitive team. But I'm not sure what the odds are on decently competitive with Gruden in charge. And if he botches these next two drafts, as he has botched talent evaluation so often in the past, then it could be a lot of years before the Raiders are anything approaching decent. The thing about a fire sale is that it means you must hit big with those picks you get back, or else be consigned to years before you can fix the disaster.

As someone who has seen this happen for decades in Cleveland, I can assure everyone that coming back from fucking up multiple high draft picks in successive years is not something you can do quickly, if at all. That kind of failure can spin out of control and just become a reinforcing mechanism.

And, of course, a bad owner exacerbates it all.

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46 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 03, 2018 - 12:15pm

Casino buses will take the visiting fans to the game and bring them right back to the casino.

The *game* is the excuse for going to Vegas, especially when your team is always a sellout and good seats are not available.

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47 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by mrt1212 // Nov 03, 2018 - 1:14pm

I was thinking about this the other day - what if the purpose of the Raiders is to be a perennial whipping boy for out of town fans to watch. Think about it - you go to Vegas to watch your team wail on a hapless team, maybe you put some money on it cause you know that 10 point spread is myth, enjoy your win and get loose at the casino etc etc. Having the Raiders be terrible might just be good business is what I'm getting at. Cynical as it is, Gruden provides perfect cover.

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50 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 03, 2018 - 5:10pm

That's sadly plausible.

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64 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Rich A // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:54pm

As a Winnipeger I know many people that travel for games. My dad and I drove the 900 miles to KC just two weeks ago.

But the cheapest flights into the US are to Vegas.

As soon as the Raiders are there I will be down probably yearly, as well as many of my friends, including Chiefs fans, Steelers fans, and whichever team is hot (my dad).

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36 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 02, 2018 - 11:54am

I expect most of the cost-benefit analysis to that contract involved getting the city of Las Vegas excited about the arrival of the Raiders, led by a Super Bowl winning coach and well known TV personality.

Are you excited yet, Las Vegas?

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38 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 02, 2018 - 12:07pm

The current ownership situation is a bit mysterious. Maybe when Al's wife (Mark's mother) dies, enough inheritance taxes will be due to force Mark to give up control, although I imagine the 20%:Al sold to Wall Street types in 2007, for 150 million, was for the purpose of providing enough liquidity to handle future issues pertaining to such taxes.

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51 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 03, 2018 - 7:38pm

It's unseasonably rainy and wet in my part of Colorado today, and I'm watching Texas run a desperate lateral play at the end. They made the same mistake NFL teams make, where the guy with the ball is more concerned about lateraling than actually advancing the ball.

College football is weird. You can call two timeouts in a row?

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52 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 03, 2018 - 8:02pm

College football rosters are big enough they should simply dress their entire Rugby team, in case they need to field them to run laterals the right way on the final play of the game.

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53 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 03, 2018 - 9:06pm

They *do* have huge rosters in college, that's a good idea.

It makes you appreciate how well-designed the play the Bucs ran a few weeks ago was, the one that almost worked. That one actually had a plan. (If only college coaches were paid enough to worry about details like that!)

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54 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by ChrisLong // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:25am

Predictions for today's action (road team comes first for each):

Bears 17 Bills 7
Chiefs 27 Browns 20
Jets 21 Dolphins 23
Lions 26 Vikings 27
Falcons 27 **offensive team name deleted** 30
Bucs 21 Panthers 42
Steelers 20 Ravens 21
Texans 28 Broncos 20
Chargers 14 Seahawks 24
Rams 35 Saints 38
Packers 34 Patriots 30
Titans 21 Cowboys 24

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55 Picks

by Raiderjoe // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:22am

Squirrels 28, falcs 24
Jets 22 dolphina 17
Vikrs 27, lpins 24
Chiefs 36, browns 19
Panthers 24, buccaneers 20
Ravens 23, steelers 20
Bears 20, bills 13
Seahawks 27, chargers 21
Texans 31, bro cos 23
Saimya 34, rama 30
Patriots 37, Packers 33
Cowboys 22, Titans 17

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56 Re: Picks

by Dr. Mooch // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:14am

Picking Rama to lose is bold.

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67 Re: Picks

by mrt1212 // Nov 04, 2018 - 1:41pm

Maybe this is why the Raiders are experiencing some...Karma...

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136 Re: Picks

by Raiderjoe // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:52pm

Turns oit picking Rams to keep it close was the bold part

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57 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:44am

Bears 35 Bills 0
Chiefs 42 Browns 15
Jets 24 Dolphins 17
Lions 23 Vikings 32
Falcons 21 Squirrels 24
Bucs 31 Panthers 21
Steelers 24 Ravens 24 (OT)
Texans 19 Broncos 21
Chargers 25 Seahawks 27
Rama 41 Saimya 33
Packers 27 Patriots 31
Titans 12 Cowboys 17

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58 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:34pm

Why can't the stupid NFL have an early London game TODAY, when the stupid f°•°**ng time change means everyone is awake for it?

Daylight losers time is literally the worst--it takes away an hour of sunlight right when we need it the most! This is why seasonal affective disorder exists! Ugh.

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60 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:35pm

Because the purpose of the London game is to punish teams the NFL doesn’t like.

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239 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:33am

I was actually just thinking yesterday that the time shift made for a perfect football Sunday. I was able to sleep in, still get up before 8AM, and do everything I wanted to get done that day so I didn't feel bad about going to a bar and knocking back a few beers at 1PM. I want every Sunday morning to have an extra hour like this one did.

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59 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:34pm

In many countries, starting Nathan Peterman would trigger a corruption investigation by gambling officials. Teams usually avoid so obviously throwing a game.

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61 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:38pm

Hey I have Peterson in Loser League, I NEED this!

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63 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 04, 2018 - 12:52pm

You aren't far off. I expect Peterman to figure in Kap's collusion case. Although I expect Tom Savage and Brandon Weeden to be more significant evidence. And let's throw in Cody Kessler, too, as Kap is certainly better and far more suited to a Jags offensive system that calls for a mobile QB.

I'm not a guy who thinks Kap is as good as his last year in the league QB rating suggests, but it is bananas that he's not in the league. While he never proved to me that he's a guy who should be a starter, he is still better than at least six or seven guys who are starting. And he's better than most of the league's backups.

And how about AJ McCarron? How fucking crazy is it that Hue Jackson tried to trade a 2 and a 3 for a guy who is far worse than Kap?

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65 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 1:12pm

Sure, but Hue’s a moron.

I don’t think he can be used as an example of deliberate slighting. He just consistently make idiotic choices.

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69 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:13pm

I wonder if the NFL will use the staggering incompetence of their coaches and GMs as a defense against the collision claims. "We didn't blackball him, we're just idiots"

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105 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:42pm

It's one of only two realistic legal defences they have, but probably not the one they lead with.

The objective evidence is that the NFL will re-hire anybody who recently saw a ball being snapped. Landry Jones is the most recent confirmation of this.

Kap is a notable exception.

So the NFL will surely argue one of:

(a) teams really thought Savage, Weeden, Kessler, etc. gave them a better chance to win than Kap, or
(b) we didn't hire him for non-football reasons but it wasn't collusion, we all just independently came to the conclusion that having him on our team would hurt our organization, either because of locker room cohesion, attendance at the gate, etc.

The first is basically the "most of us are idiots" defence, for which there is some evidence (they could have J Jones take the stand, for example). The second is the "our fans are okay with us employing wife beaters but lots of them draw the line at national anthem protests" defence, for which the President's tweets might be sufficient evidence.

Or maybe they argue (b) for the competent teams and roll out (a) to explain the Bills' QB decisions.

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66 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 1:28pm

You could also pull a Malcolm Jenkins and use Blake Bortles, whose name must mean "Inconsistent" in some language. And the Jags recently signed Landry Jones, who is a perfect backup QB. Not too terrible, so he can win a couple of games, but not too great, so when you someone asks "Why he isn't the starter", he throws 2 picks back to back. His INT rate is Peterman level in the playoffs too.

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68 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:12pm

Latavius Murray fumbled the ball and Adam Thielen recovered, but it looks like Murray managed to make the ball make the plane before fumbling.

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70 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:16pm

The entire lions coachign staff is wearing NFL-branded military flight suits on the sidelines. BARF BARF BARF. FOOTBALL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MILITARY

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71 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:16pm

HEY! Squib Punt by Ben Roethlisberger!

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72 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:32pm

Redskins have had two offensive linemen injured already.

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73 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:37pm

How is that the Chiefs have not scored 21 points already?

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74 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:42pm

I'm switching back and forth with another game, but I believe they are on only their second possession.

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75 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:44pm

So who would the Bengals want to win in Steelers-Ravens? Ravens, because the Bengals have the tiebreaker over them, or Steelers since that would likely make it an only two horse race for the AFC North?

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76 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:51pm

What's the advantage of only a two horse race?

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78 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:58pm

The Ravens would be basically out of it at 4-5 so the Bengals would only have the Steelers left as serious competition for the division. I think they would rather Baltimore wins, though, since the Steelers are in first.

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81 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:07pm

But why would it make any difference to the Bengals if it's a 3-way race or 2-way? I just don't see any advantage at all for them if Pittsburgh wins

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87 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:28pm

Well, as a general rule you always want fewer competitors. In a vacuum, the fewer there are competing for one spot, the better chance you have.

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177 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Alternator // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:03pm

Wild Card as a fallback.

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96 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Thok // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:07pm

Given where they are in the standings and their team quality, the Bengals' primary goal should be to make the playoffs. A Ravens loss helps them with that goal more than a Steelers loss.

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77 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by joe football // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:55pm

It's time for another season of FO gameday chat! Join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters as we say smart, analytic and totally backed by data things about the football games...in real time!

Unlike Jon Gruden, FO gameday chat isn't beholden to old ways of doing things so we've migrated from slack to discord the season. Among other advantages, it makes it really easy to join, just click the discord invite link: https://discord.gg/Bkd7Fa

Please note that it'll probably take a few minutes for one of our admins to matriculate you into the chat

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79 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 2:59pm

Matthew Stafford is getting eaten up alive by the Vikings pass rush.

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80 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:01pm

Geez, the seas just opened on that huge run. If Dalvin Cook was a tad faster or he managed to keep upright at the end, it is a TD.

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82 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:09pm

The game break lady said the Panthers scored on a double reverse, but I wasn't paying attention to the highlight. Was it actually a double reverse?

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84 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:12pm

Certainly looked like it.

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88 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:29pm

It depends on how you define a "reverse." If the QB takes the ball one direction as on a bootleg, but hands off to a receiver coming the other way, is that a reverse, or an end around? It's really a hybrid of both ideas

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90 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:51pm

That’s only a single reverse.

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83 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:11pm

Oh, great. Peterman threw a pick six. What else is new?

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85 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:22pm

Bears defense with as many touchdowns today (2) as the Bills have scored in their previous 5 games

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86 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:25pm

... Like ... how is that you go down, hit the ground, roll on the ground, release the ball and the officials consider it fumble? It was overturned, but damn.

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91 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:51pm

I thought they called it an interception.

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89 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:34pm

A weird play in the Chiefs game where Mahomes gets an intentional grounding penalty on a spike, apparently for snapping the ball before the play clock started or something like that.

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93 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:58pm

I don't think the refs explained it properly, but according to Football Zebras on twitter the game clock was stopped and you're not allowed to spike the ball in that situation - at least not without being called for intentional grounding.

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94 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:58pm

That sounds more like illegal procedure or delay of game to me, or at worst unsportsmanlike.

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92 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 3:58pm

How about that. Big Ben QB Sneak for a TD. Why teams don't run more QB Sneaks at the 1 yard line?

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95 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:05pm

Dude, Lions, your offense line is getting beat to the tune of SEVEN sacks already (now eight). Why are you continually calling straight dropbacks? Move Stafford around!

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101 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:27pm

Vikings have been getting plenty of pressure, but quite a few coverage sacks too. Would be too convenient to place a lot of blame on trading Golden Tate, but it sure seems like Stafford has had nowhere (or no idea where) to go for much of the afternoon. It was still a game until he both literally and figuratively tossed it away there.

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97 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:09pm

Chiefs have scored a TD on every drive bar one that started with 26 seconds left in the half.

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98 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:14pm

I'm pretty sure that your first objective when receiving a pitch is getting control of the damn thing.

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99 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:20pm

Hah! Matt Patricia doesn't give a damn. Fake Punt run on 4th and 4 for a first.

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100 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:21pm

The hell?! Did Stafford tried to lateral that? Like, what and why?

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102 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:36pm

Apparently when they were down 35-7 the Bucs went for it on fourth and goal and converted rather than taking the basically useless FG. Now they are down by just 14 and have the ball. That shows the value of going for TDs when you are down huge instead of merely trying to make the scoreline look a little better.

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104 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:40pm

Tell that to John Gruden.

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103 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:37pm

10 sacks. That's a franchise record for the Vikings. And a lot of incompetence for the Lions.

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106 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:51pm

So Fitzmagic is trying to bring back the Bucs and he's actually making it happen.

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107 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:53pm

But just like last week TB's defense is so bad the comeback will almost certainly fail.

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108 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 4:59pm

Doesn't help that they are still running the ball.

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109 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:06pm

Flacco needs to throw the ball away somewhere, anywhere, rather than take that sack.

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111 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:10pm

Following that sack was a Steelers Offsides, Ravens False Start and a failed lateral play due to Illegal Forward pass.

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110 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:09pm

Was the Jets - Fins game as exciting as the final score suggests, or was this an old-fashioned slugfest between two dominating defensive units?

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112 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:11pm

It had a pick six ... that's about everything I know.

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114 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:23pm

I don't suppose the other points came from 6 safeties?

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138 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:56pm

Jets played really good defense.
Jets playd really awful offense.
For the most paet.
Dolphins kind of just existed

Jets ofdense allowed 7 points.
Jets defense allowed 6 points

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113 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:23pm

Talking about the Broncos trading D.T. and the teams' reaction, I think the announcer just said "Emmanuel Sanders was hugging the lunch lady the other day"

… ....what… ?

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115 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:32pm

Interesting play. So, on 4th and 1, Brees takes the snap, flicks it to Hill, who looks downfield for Brees, but he's covered so Hill just ran himself for the 1st.

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117 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:35pm

My worries from last week pop up again. The Rams Pass D is good enough. Alvin Kamara is pretty elusive, that's a fact. But how 3 guys (Facing 1 blocker mind you) simply fail to wrap up Kamara. Where is the run D?

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116 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by gomer_rs // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:35pm

So if a team is playing the Bill's with Peterman in, do you even rush the passer?

At this point a sack or throw away feels like a win for the offense.
_______

I remember when they were the Sea-chickens.

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119 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:47pm

Apparently two of his three picks today were tipped. He also threw 49 passes, so this was more of a typical bad QBing performance than the historically bad games he's had before.

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120 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:03pm

He had two picks in his first 14 passes.

And thus having sated the defense, his next 35 only resulted in one pick.

He approaches passing like cicadas approach reproduction. Eventually the predators will simply become full, allowing some passes to survive.

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118 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 5:39pm

Vance Joseph doesn't know the NFL rules, and loses a challenge because of it. Somebody on the Broncos sideline should take the challenge flag from him and hide it, if he's not going to be mature enough to use it like an adult.

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121 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:05pm

I wonder if a defense will step up today. At this rate it will become a 40+ point per team affair.

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122 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:09pm

I just jinxed the Saints, and I'm sorry about that.

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123 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:09pm

There's your play. Rams ball after a forced fumble.

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128 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:19pm

Leads to a field goal attempt - NOPE a fake FG attempt!

Which comes down to a coin toss that Hekker and the Rams lose.

McVay buy into the narrative that FGs ain't gonna beat da saints!

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132 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:32pm

Oops. Zuerlein buys into the same narrative, pushing his next (real) FG attempt wide right.

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124 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:11pm

Why offensive coordinators dial up WR Screens on 3rd and more than 3?

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125 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:14pm

Because they have the balls to go for it on 4th, that's why. I THINK he's short though

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126 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:16pm

Hekker got screwed

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127 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:18pm

Yeah. I have no idea how they didn't overturn that spot but vinovich seems to mess up a bunch of obvious calls every game.

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129 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:20pm

Drew Brees dives and losses the ball. No one touches him, and the Rams pick it up. Unlike the times the Steelers ran a QB Sneak, Ben got down and he lost the ball after being down, that is a live ball. The officials rule the play dead, then the Saints just go on. McVay could have challenged that, because it is a fumble.

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240 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:39am

QB has to slide feet first to give himself up. I remember Eli Manning doing that years back, diving face first and coughing up the ball when he hit the ground. The refs correctly ruled it a fumble.

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130 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:30pm

The Saints are getting traditional drives, the Rams are getting chunk plays after chunk plays.

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131 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:32pm

Zuerlein missed that Field Goal try (It was a 50 yarder). That's six points the Rams just lost, and they could be critical.

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141 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:00pm

Well they got screwed by the refs on the first time they could have taken 3.

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133 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:38pm

Of course Vance Joseph is a fan of "icing" the kicker. Fairbairn missed the "iced" kick and made the second. Of course.

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147 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:51pm

Joseph, and the Broncos in general, seem considerably better than last year. Yes, he needs more help with challenges, but he is not the only coach in the league with that problem (nor the only one to still spend timeouts on opponent kickers, though at least in this case the timeout wasn't going to be used for anything else).

It seems to take quite a lot of coaches some time to learn how to Head Coach as opposed to just do their speciality. The biggest systemic mistake I think Joseph has made this year was to go a day later to the East Coast days - assuming that was related to the defence falling apart and missing so many tackles as the game went on. I'm not as down on Joseph (or his team) as many fans seem to be, though not as high on them as DVOA at the moment, though they have had a tough schedule.

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151 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:10pm

He also, like many other coaches settles for longer FGs at the end of halves than he should. Typing this before the kick attempt.

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134 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:48pm

Haha NOW the refs give it to the runner when he stretches the ball forward

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135 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:49pm

Drew Brees rumbles for a 1st down on 3rd and 10. Where's the defense?

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137 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:52pm

It seems like Joe Buck is doing Aikman's job of adding "color" today. Aikman seems even more confused and somnulent than usual.

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139 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 6:59pm

The Broncos lead the league in pass rushers in the backfield flying past a quarterback without hitting him.

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140 Random crazy Mahomes factoid

by CVBoot // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:00pm

Mahomes had 3 TDs this week. His team only punted twice.

Turns out that's normal. On the season, Mahomes has 31 TDs, the Chiefs have punted 23 times.

I noodled around Pro Football Reference, the only times in NFL history a player has scored more TDs than his team punted, over a 16 game season, was Tom Brady's 52 TDs to 44 Patriot punts in 2007 and Brees's 47 TDs to 46 Saints punts in 2011.

Brady had a 1.18-to-1 TD-to-punt ratio.
Brees had a 1.02-to-1.

Mahomes is at 1.35.

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142 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:02pm

Saints 35

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143 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:04pm

Redzone highlights the big hit on Lindsey that causes him to go flying. If he had been wrapped up instead of going for big hit it would have been a loss of yards instead of incomplete.

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144 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:22pm

Looks like the Saints will need 50+ Points if they intend to keep this one away from the Rams.

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145 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:32pm

Wow, do I hate that punt on 4th and 4 from the Rams' 41.

Payton is seeing this game differently than I am if he thinks making Goff and the Rams go an extra 20 to 30 yards is a better deal than giving Brees and crew a shot to gain 4 yards to reach scoring range.

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146 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 7:37pm

Anything but the 1 yard line is unacceptable when you punt from the 40 on 4th and less than 5. I think he trusts his defense to stop the Rams offense? They have stopped Gurley, but not so much the passing game.

EDIT: Wipe what I said about Gurley out.

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170 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:38pm

Then he closes the game out with a 4th-and-1 gamble when the only risk of kicking away involved a recovered onside kick.

Guess that counts as learning on the fly. I don't mind going for it there, it just seemed odd after not going for it earlier when the reward seemed so much greater.

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148 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:00pm

As is typical of the Saints, they blew a lead. A 21 point halftime lead at that.

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149 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:05pm

35-all, this is a ball game!

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150 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cogitus // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:09pm

Vance Joseph just settled for a 50 yard fg with 35 seconds left and a timeout.

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152 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:10pm

The right thing happened, it was missed.

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153 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:12pm

What the hell. It's like people who get paid millions of dollars because they're supposedly good at understanding footballs don't realize that being closer makes kicks easier.

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154 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:14pm

Bad process got the result it deserved, Joseph not alone in doing this though. I wouldn't personally like to settle for a FG until I'm in the redzone whilst there is time on the clock.

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156 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cogitus // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:14pm

and subsequently gets punished as McManus pushes it wide. Is there a worse coach in the NFL now that Jackson has been fired?

If I had to rank the bottom five it's something like

Joseph
Jason Garrett
Adam Gase
McDermott
McCarthy

I want to add Jon Gruden and Matt Patricia to the list but I suppose I'll give them a pass since it's their first year. Thoughts?

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162 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:23pm

You should add Gruden, it's his first year coaching in a long time, in the modern NFL, but it's not his first time at this.

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167 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:30pm

Worst coaches:

1) Jon Gruden
Sean McDermott
Gregg Whatever (tie)

----big gap-----

4) Garret, Gase, Joseph, Koetter, others

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169 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:35pm

I think Joseph is showing improvement on last year, hopefully he keeps learning. He didn't mess up anything like as badly as McDaniels, seems more aggressive than Fox, and the number of young players coming through this year gives me some hope for the future. Assuming Joseph is capable of continuing to learn then I can see reasons to keep him, there is plenty of evidence that hiring a new coach is a lottery. It Belichick some false starts to work things out. The question is can someone learn and are their signs of improvement.

The case seems closed on Garrett being who he is, how much of that is thanks to Jerry Jones is open to debate - and maybe is what keeps him off the real life hot-seat. Jon Gruden is a looking like he might be a disaster. Gase has not had much luck with QB health, but I don't follow Miami enough to know much more than that. McDermott has been party to such strange QB choices (far worse than any in Denver since trading up for Tebow) that I'd happily have him on the hot-seat list.

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173 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cogitus // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:47pm

I'm a Bills fan, but I live in Miami so I know a bit about the Dolphins. Gase is delusional and arrogant about his abilities, thinks "old-school", and is generally power-hungry. He's basically the offensive coordinator version of McDermott, putting an emphasis on "character" and "working through adversity" and he influences the front office to shed talent that doesn't fit his narrow-minded idea of what consists of a "winner" to clog his roster with washed up veterans even though his team has no real chance of competing. Thus the roster is an awkward mis-mash of some promising youth, overpriced free-agents that don't fit the timeline of a rebuild or for a contending team, and old guys like Gore and Sitton littering the roster for "culture" concerns.

I considered him worst than Gruden because Gase has no plan and only reacts to short-term concerns and his team is a hopeless quagmire of mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Gruden at least seems to have a rebuilding plan in place, as moronic as it might be. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a disaster, but if he stumbles into a bunch of talent with all his draft picks, I can see it working it out.

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176 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:00pm

And yet the Fins are 5-4 while the Grud is crapping his way to the no. 1 pick without a plan.

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226 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Steve B // Nov 05, 2018 - 1:26am

Settling for a 51 yard FG with time left = "improving"?

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230 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 05, 2018 - 7:49am

I think Joseph has improved most of the preparation and management side of things - there seems a better culture of responsibility and in general more organisation and general professionalism around the Broncos this year than last year. He, like many other head coaches (see many posts in this thread) still needs to tighten up some parts of game management. Hopefully he will either learn more of this himself, or gain the services of some staff who can help with such things. He doesn't seem allergic to analytics or excessively egotistical which are both, to me, hopeful signs.

If Harbaugh gets fired from the Ravens, then he would be one of the possible better coaches, but despite the results not coming the performances this season over the majority of the games have been a lot better than last year from the Broncos. DVOA would suggest there is a lot to like about much of the game day performance, if not the results. Changing coaches generally leads to a fair amount of disruption, and if the Broncos continue to play fairly well, and especially if they get some reward for this in W-L ledger than not changing for the sake of change seem sensible to me.

The other side is that if Joseph coaches next year and things regress, he can be replaced by a new regime that can start by drafting a new QB with Keenum out of contract. Hopefully in between they get some more OL from somewhere, losing Paradis will be a serious blow.

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245 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 05, 2018 - 4:13pm

You make good points, and I try to keep all that in mind when hating on Joseph. But still, imagine what a fully competent coach could do with this team, rather than a maybe possibly halfway competent one.

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247 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TimK // Nov 05, 2018 - 7:14pm

Thanks. I think most people here ( exceptions for Pats, Saints, Rams and one or two other teams ) spend time imagining what a fully competent coach could do for their teams too ;)

Andy Reid, for example, is a good to great coach, but still has his foibles - is he fully competent? Ron Rivera learn to go from overly conservative to “riverboat Ron”.

No idea if Joseph will work out, and I was swearing at the screen before even the run to set up that last FG that they had time to get closer last night. But from what we see every week maybe half the coaches in the league are too conservative on many plays, and settle for FGs at the limits of range when they could risk more.

How much of this is “better to blame the kicker than the QB or playcall if something goes wrong” institutionalised cowardice and how much is poor understanding of the winning probabilities I don’t know, but it is only changing slowly. Better coaches learn, if Joseph can learn then great, if not, at least we hopefully find out before a playoff game. I can stomach a season with signs of improvement but no luck, Broncos got some luck in their last championship season (as do all champions), better to get it when it can get you to the top than to merely get a slightly less early draft pick.

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219 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:30am

Patricia is an ex-Pats coordinator (and a bad one). He was doomed before he started blowing gimme games and making shitty personnel decisions.

Maybe he can go back and beg for his old job back like McDaniels did.

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155 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:14pm

On the other hand, I like Payton taking the (long) FG there rather than going for it on 4th-and-6.

Dome raises the probability of making it. Likely the Rams take their next possession down and score another TD, but there's time for one more Rams drive followed by one more Saints drive. So whatever the Rams do now, Saints should have an opportunity to match for the win. Assuming they milk the clock on their last drive and don't give the Rams time for a second possession.

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158 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:19pm

What do I know. Rams go 3-and-out for first time all game. Now Saints have a chance for a TD to make it a two score game, but if they don't, Rams will have the potential last drive of the game for a chance to win.

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160 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:20pm

Rams went 3 and out, Saints got a deep TD against, who else, Marcus Peters.

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157 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Boots Day // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:15pm

Payton is getting a little too cute with his offense, lining up Taysom Hill in the backfield and then actually throwing the ball to him.

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159 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:20pm

That was some frustrating decision making by Vance Joseph at the end of the game. Still, you definitely expect an NFL kicker to make that kick. I guess the Broncos will have to settle for being one of the best 3-6 teams ever. I bet DVOA will still have them in the top 10.

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164 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:24pm

I think that's the problem. Coaches and announcers seem to think that field goal range is some binary condition rather than understanding that closer is always better. The Broncos could have run a number of additional plays to get closer which would have made that kick easier.

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172 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:46pm

Maybe the TV coverage could help everybody out and instead of that overlay with the magical "FG Range Line", instead overlay a shaded grid that gets darker the higher the probability of a made FG from that range.

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178 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:09pm

That would be better than the green shading NBC uses during their games.

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181 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:21pm

I would love that

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171 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:44pm

How many wins do the Texans have now that are a direct result of questionable coaching decisions from the other sideline?

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161 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:21pm

Although Michale Thomas' celebration cost them yards, that was funny to watch.

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163 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Steve B // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:24pm

Rams' secondary is cheeks

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165 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:25pm

I don't care that Thomas went with a celebration that was going to earn a penalty, but the celebration was super lame. He could have mimed a phone and not lost anything

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166 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:28pm

That drop by Brandin Cooks ends the ball game.

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168 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Steve B // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:32pm

Remember when people thought Marcus Peters was a great signing?

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185 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:34pm

Peppridge Farm remembers

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174 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:49pm

Stupid plays of the week:

1) Chargers kicker getting a tripping penalty by cowardly flopping on a KR. Dude, you kept the opp in the game by missing two XP and a FG! Then you give them a chance with a stupid penalty! Sturgis needs to be cut last week.

2) Michael Thomas with the stupid cell phone stunt. Not only could cost them the game, but he could get himself suspended. Actually I hope he does get suspended for idiocy.

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175 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 8:53pm

After the way Thomas played that game? He could get 3 of those stupid penalties a game and I'd still dress him.

With luck, though, one of the team leaders lets him know that's not cool.

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179 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:14pm

17 point lead with 30 seconds left? Fine. 9 point lead with 3 minutes left? STUPID. Especially when you've squandered a 3 TD lead at halftime, and the game could decide home field advantage in the conference.

Sean Peyton was definitely unhappy afterward.

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180 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:15pm

I'm really nervous going into tonight's game. It's either going to be a really good game or the Pats will blow the Packers out. Maybe Jimmy Graham finally does something when he sees Gronk on the other sideline and remembers when they were talked about in the same sentence.

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182 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:22pm

Usually I’m quite pessimistic about the post-2015 Packers in games like this, but for some reason, maybe because I loathe the Patriots so much, I think they can pull it off here.

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183 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:24pm

You know, last season's game of the year was Steelers vs. Patriots. It did deliver (I cooled off about the Jesse James TD/Non TD). This game looks as hyped, or even more hyped than that game. It would be funny that this turned into a defensive matchup with single digit points for both sides. Other than that, I expect this game to be like the Steelers vs. Patriots game last season.

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184 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:26pm

Does the Harbaugh being fired from Baltimore chatter really have any ring of truth to it? My goodness, I don't believe he's the second coming of Belichick or Joe Gibbs, but any number of teams ought to snap him up should he become available.

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187 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:37pm

Seems to me like an Andy-Reid-in-Philly-type situation, where both coach and team may benefit from a change.

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192 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:48pm

That team needs a new QB far more pressingly than it needs a new HC.

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194 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:55pm

By the late weeks, if the Ravens can't get their playoff hopes again, they could start Lamar Jackson at pure QB instead of subpackage player.

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189 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Rocco // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:40pm

I don't think you can blame him for Flacco decomposing over the last 4 years...but I'm also not sure a team with expectations can miss the playoffs four straight seasons without the head coach getting fired. If he gets fired he won't be out of a job for long.

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186 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:36pm

If I were a Packers fan I think I might be hoping the team loses this game and plenty more the rest of the season, in hopes of McCarthy being fired. I'm not sure if he's actually a bad coach, but I don't think anyone would claim he's one of the best in the league. Since a job with Aaron Rodgers as your QB would be the most attractive coaching position in football it makes no sense to settle for someone like McCarthy. Trying to lure John Harbaugh back into the NFL would be a great option. The other Harbaugh, if he actually gets fired, would also be a good choice.

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188 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:39pm

Never eat chicken, it's a nervous bird.

Seriously though Jim Harbaugh in GB would be scary

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200 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:26pm

Looks to me more like Rodgers is angling to get traded to the Giants. At least they can afford his contract and his attitude.

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190 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:42pm

For a change, the Packers didn't burn a time out to avoid a Delay of Game. They just the penalty.

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191 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:45pm

For the love of everything that's nice, WHY(!) teams run screens on 3rd and long? Is Todd Haley down there? He loves WR screens a lot.

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193 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 9:52pm

McCarthy calls way too many WR screens on second or third-and-long. Most are to Cobb. It actually worked Cobb's first couple years, but Cobb isn't as quick as he used to be. (He's still a very good WR when healthy.)

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195 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:00pm

That pass reminded me of a Big Ben INT against the Browns to Damarius Randall. Ben threw it to the middle of the field, Antonio Brown but outside and he lost contact with the ball. Similar here, Rodgers threw a back shoulder, St. Brown lost the ball. Difference is that the coverage guy didn't went for the pick.

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196 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:07pm

The year of the Flea Flicker? How many of those happened just this season?

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197 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:17pm

Belichick should have challenged that catch by Gordon. The second foot slid out of bounds, but started in bounds and that's all that matters.

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198 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by aces4me // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:21pm

Ernie likely figured that was at best a 50-50 to over turn. Bill decides to keep his timeout. I guess he is feeling good about his defense. I think he challenges that if he is worried about his D.

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199 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:22pm

Didn't look like he had the ball at that point.

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201 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:37pm

Silly NBC. Tom Brady isn't a goat, he's a fancy dog!

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202 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:40pm

Someone needs to tell Collinsworth that the reason the 2 inside LB look isn't working against the run is that only Martinez is any good

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203 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 04, 2018 - 10:42pm

After this game the chatter will be how the GOAT transformed a gadget returner / receiver into a RB.

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205 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:18pm

That'll be attributed to Belichick, and might've been warranted if Patterson had been slotted into the position before the last healthy RB on the team went down.

As it was, looked like a bad defensive match up, and of course the defense can't use a time out to sort out their personnel.

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207 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:22pm

It would be ironic if Patterson finally excelled at something he wasn't drafted for after all this time.

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227 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 05, 2018 - 3:47am

Yeah this has bugged me reading Twitter and the like. Patterson was obviously signed by the Pats for special teams. It's taken a succession of injuries to force his use at RB. The question should really be, if they can plug in a guy like Patterson at RB effectively, why did they spend a first round pick on Michel?

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229 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by RobotBoy // Nov 05, 2018 - 4:21am

Patterson at RB is a desperation move for an O that is missing it's two between-the-tackles RBs in Burkhead (IR) and Michel. They tried it last week and results were meh. It only worked this time because GB's run-D is so very, very bad.

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231 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 7:50am

Three. Jeremy Hill went down in their first game.

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232 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by RobotBoy // Nov 05, 2018 - 8:23am

Indeed. N-F-L really does mean 'Not For Long.'

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238 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by sbond101 // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:25am

The idea that Patterson was brought in by the Pats as a special teams guy and then BB gets credit for being a "genius" for slotting him in to RB is a false narrative. Patterson had 18 offensive touches in the first 4 games, including a 65-yard + TD offensive game against the Dolphins, mostly running end-arounds, WR screens etc... This is a clear replacement for the decline of Edelman in plays like that - it appears that the Pats finally failed to find another badly undervalued short white guy to replace Welker/Woodhead/Amandola/Edelman, and opted for speed/size over short space quickness. The experiment had mixed results, not unlike the mixed results Patterson has had as an emergency HB. Credit to BB for trying it rather than just conceding the hole in the roster like a lot of coaches would **cough Bills cough**.

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233 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by PatsFan // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:11am

Because they can play no-huddle very effectively, if they notice the defense has a bad matchup re: Patterson as a RB, they can lock in that matchup advantage for as much of the drive as they want.

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235 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:42am

There's no excuse for a defence not using a time out to break the up tempo offence and get out of a bad match up, especially in the first half of the game.

Time outs don't belong to the offence, they belong to the team.

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204 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:12pm

I will say the Packers running game is working better without Montgomery siphoning off carries

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206 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:19pm

I thought Montgomery's complaint was that he wasn't siphoning off enough carries.

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208 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:33pm

I find it hard to believe that a seven point lead with SEVEN MINUTES LEFT IN THE THIRD QUARTER would equal a 79% chance of winning. Those numbers are stupid. The chance is pretty close to 50/50

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224 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Scott P. // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:46am

I can't find current numbers, but as of December 2016, the Patriots had won 86 straight games at home when leading at halftime. So 79% might even be low.

ETA: heading into 2017, they were 102-0 at home when entering the 4th quarter with a lead. That was just before they blew the lead to the Chiefs. Still, that's a pretty good record.

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225 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:53am

I also wonder if this is a perception issue where 79% immediately strikes you as a much higher likelihood than it actually represents

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243 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 05, 2018 - 1:31pm

Can you explain what you mean? I don't follow

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244 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 2:36pm

No doubt the trailing team comes back to tie the game more often than 21% of the time in that situation, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that, when the final whistle is blown, the team trailing by 7 half way through Q3 only gets the win 1 game in 5.

It's less often than I would have intuitively thought, but on reflection (a) the trailing team will often be the weaker team generally, and (b) even if they come back to tie it, the other team gets the ball next, and the closer you get to the end of the game, the more important it becomes to get the ball next when the game is tied.

EDIT: Now that I do the math, I'm not sure why my intuition would have found 79% surprising.

Say a team trailing by 7 half way through Q3 comes back to tie the game 50% of the time, which seems reasonable since regardless of the quality of the teams, surely the team with the lead is at least as likely to keep the lead as they are to give it up. Then, once the game is tied, say both teams have an equal chance to win the game, i.e. ignore my point above about the value of getting the ball first after a tie.

That by itself gives the team with a one touchdown lead a 75% chance of winning the game. So the other factors I mentioned (likely relative team quality and value of next possession after the game is tied) are only adding 4% to the win percentages with a quarter and a half to go before the end of the game.

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246 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 05, 2018 - 4:30pm

I would like to see what's behind those AWS numbers

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209 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Steve B // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:44pm

BS one sided officiating in a NE game? What a shock!

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211 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:52pm

There's no lack of BS one-sided officiating in Lambeau Field.

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212 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:01am

Not this year.

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213 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:10am

Like calling Gordon out of bounds on his catch?

Or ruling Patterson down short of the goal line after replay?

The refs sure are picky about which calls they get wrong in favor of the Pats.

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210 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 04, 2018 - 11:48pm

12th man making an appearance in Foxboro.

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214 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:10am

NOW there's a 79% chance the Pats win

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215 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BywaterBrat // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:11am

Packers missing Clinton Dix on those last 2 big plays

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216 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:16am

Packers missing healthy bodies on defense, period.

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217 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Steve in WI // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:17am

My pet peeve: after Jones fumbled at about the NE 25-yard line, NE went 75 yards down the field to score a TD. The camera cuts to Jones on the sideline and Collinsworth makes a comment about how that turned out to be a costly fumble.

He didn’t fumble in his own territory and gift the Pats a short field; the Patriots started from about the same place they’d be after a touchback. The Jones fumble was costly because it took probable points off the board for GB; the eventual outcome of NE’s drive had nothing to do with the fumble.

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253 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:50pm

The conventional wisdom is missing a likely scoring chance against the Patriots is costly, as your observation clearly proved.

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218 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:30am

I did not expect the GB offence to be the weak link tonight.

I was worried that the GB defence would be lit up by the Pats passing attack, and after that first drive I was really worried.

But whatever the final score ends up being by the time garbage time is finished, it was the GB offence that let this game get away.

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220 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:36am

The defense didn’t cover itself in glory with its lack of tackling.

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222 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:44am

The defense at least was playing hard against a good offense while also fighting through injuries, especially in the defensive backfield. The Packers offense is just about full strength and totally crapped out against a pretty mediocre defense.

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237 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:13am

I was surprised at how much pressure the Packers were generating.

If NE keeps letting Brady take shots in his face like that, that cliff will be coming sooner rather than later. In the old days, he would go months without having to launder his jersey.

But GB's defense backfield tackling was... not good? Reminded me of Chicago at the end of the week 1 game. The safety took a route on the last NE TD that would have gotten a high school DB benched. For all Collinsworth was praising Brady for a bullet (he "threw a bullet" in the sense that it had the trajectory of someone who literally throws a bullet) and looking the safeties off, any sane route towards the WR by the safety either blasts him or gets the ball.

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241 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by nat // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:46am

In the old days, [Brady] would go months without having to launder his jersey.

Unless you're talking months during the off season, this is just silly.

Brady has excellent movement within the pocket, no doubt about that. But he has never had a season without averaging between one and two sacks per game. (except 2000 and 2008, of course, when he didn't play a full game) And he certainly takes hits after throwing the ball, just like any other QB. This season looks to be no different from his typical season as far as the physical punishment he takes.

Yes, I know you were exaggerating for effect. But the difference between "months" and "several quarters of a game" is a bit too, too much of a stretch.

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242 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 05, 2018 - 11:03am

Yeah, that was Tramon Williams at safety... unfortunately I don't think that's even due to an injury situation, that's how their defense stacks up now after having trading Clinton-Dix. Oh well.

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223 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:44am

Other than the missed tackle on Gordon for the last TD, I didn't notice much of that. By that time, it kind of seemed like the air was out of GB, anyway.

NE's base offense couldn't get going, outside of trick plays and a couple of drives where NE went up tempo to keep GB in bad personnel match ups. And the two goal line stands, one in the first half that forced a FG and one in the second getting the turnover on downs, should have been more important that they were, had the offense been able to sustain more drives and put up some more points.

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221 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 05, 2018 - 12:43am

Both are equally to blame. D kept them in it for 3 quarters but offense failed to step up when presented the opportunity. Then the 14 points allowed in 4th quarter. Maybe this can finally be the year Mike gets canned. Probably need to finish 6-2 to make the playoffs? Highly unlikely.

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228 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 05, 2018 - 3:55am

It's astonishing to me that John Harbaugh is apparently fighting for his job, whilst McCarthy continues to skate along (at least that is my impression from national coverage, local fans may tell me different).

I mean, it's tougher to coach wins with Joe Flacco at QB than Aaron Rodgers. This is obvious, right?

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234 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by TheIdealGrassLaw // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:28am

Rodgers has been the deodorant to Mike McCarthy's stinky decisions for as long as they've been together.
Last night, down in the 4th qtr with the clock on the move, they call a run up the middle after running the enter 40 second play clock.
The run got 3 yards.
You have Aaron Rodgers, and you're running up the middle from mid field.
McCarthy's hideous.

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236 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:57am

Those GB receivers sure can catch, and we know Rodgers can get the ball to them. Aaron Jones looked like the real deal as traditional running back.

The weaknesses in the GB offence seemed two-fold:

First, and glaringly, the OL didn't hold up well against NE's relatively weak pass rush. Broadcast crew quoted something like a 47% pressure rate half way through the game? didn't seem to improve after that.

Second, and possibly related, neither Jones nor Jamaal Williams seem to offer the modern RB threat as a receiver / check down option out of the backfield. That's just based on last night's game, as it's only the second Packers game I've seen this year and I can't remember how either of them was used back in the week 1 second half comeback against the Bears.

Overall, the play calling by GB's offence seemed very vanilla, a stark contrast to the complicated stuff they were doing on the other side of the ball to (often successfully) confuse Brady.

Interesting, too, that Belichick unloaded a bunch of trick plays during the game, while McCarthy did not. With NE's division, they don't exactly need to save those for divisional "rivals", so have the luxury to use them on an out-of-conference opponent. Perhaps this game meant less to the Packers, who need wins against the NFC North more than anything else. But this game was very winnable, and yeah, the one turnover going against them really hurt. But you can't beat NE at home with 17 points. You have to come in with a game plan of outscoring Brady. All vanilla's a low odds way of getting that done.

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248 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:05pm

Will Jason Garrett show off his new receiver, or will they do the smart thing and ground and pound with Zeke?

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249 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:22pm

Geez, Prescott's accuracy right now is Tim Tebow level. He won't get picked, because no one can't get close to the ball.

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250 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:38pm

Dallas will win this via forced fumbles.

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251 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 05, 2018 - 9:45pm

Dude! Big time pick and all, but you just made a T.O. by celebrating in the star, driving your team backwards. It would allowed if that was THE game ending play (Or at least, possibly game ending, like the Michael Thomas TD), but not so soon, when the O is not doing good.

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252 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 05, 2018 - 10:17pm

Looks like Jason Garret has a slightly faster gum chewing speed than Mike Vrabel. Could be a key advantage for the Cowboys tonight.

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254 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by LionInAZ // Nov 05, 2018 - 11:12pm

Perhaps, but what if he runs out of chews in a crucial late-game situation?

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259 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Tom Tulpa // Nov 06, 2018 - 12:58am

I didn't know either one of them was chewish.

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255 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 05, 2018 - 11:27pm

Not watching the game, but I noticed that with 2 mins in the 3rd, and a 7 point lead, ESPN gives the Titans a 79% chance to win. Maybe my initial reaction to that number was wrong

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256 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 11:37pm

So hard to tell which of those back-to-back plays was uglier … Mariota's attempt at a pass to Davis in the end zone, or Succop's attempt at a FG kick … decisions, decisions.

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257 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 05, 2018 - 11:43pm

Ahhh … turns out it's Prescott's pocket "awareness". Wonder what it takes for him to sense pressure when the play call is a deep pass? DL helmets fitted with flashing lights and sirens?

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258 Re: Week 9 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 06, 2018 - 12:20am

Shhhh! Don't give them any ideas

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