Football Outsiders
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Week 14 Open Game Discussion

New Orleans Saints WR Michael Thomas
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

The week kicks off with something of a snoozer, as the Cowboys (6-6) visit the Bears (6-6) in a contest of two teams desperately trying to stay relevant in the playoff race. Sunday, however, is one of the most loaded days of the year, with San Francisco (10-2) at New Orleans (10-2), Baltimore (10-2) at Buffalo (9-3), Tennessee (7-5) at Oakland (6-6), Kansas City (8-4) at New England (10-2), and Seattle (10-2) visiting the Rams (7-5) in prime time. The Monday night game -- Eli Manning leading the Giants (2-10) into Philadelphia to play the Eagles (5-7) -- sucks. Use this thread to discuss them all. 


126 comments, Last at 13 Aug 2020, 8:04am

1 Moore to blame

Jason Garrett is on the hot seat for Moore’s inexperience with game management. Also allowing him to not make Zeke the focal point of the offense doesn’t help. Change my mind

2 Moore to blame?

In reply to by ryan_woodall

I don't think so...

There was a comment a few weeks back that the cowboys were clicking on offense in a game but then at the end of the game they went extremely run heavy. That lead to the other team getting back in the game.

I think the consensus was that Moore wanted to lean on Prescott and Garrett pulled rank and called for runs on every first down. That allowed the other team to key on Zeke. Garrett probably did that because he wanted to keep Jones happy and is conservative by nature. This is conjecture though.

I don't care about how good your running game is, it's not the same as the passing game and if a team goes run heavy then it can be countered by the defense going heavy (*Ravens exempted). That seems like Garrett to me, not Moore.

I think its funny that Garrett is going to be canned because he keeps actually listening to what Jones wants. Sure the money coaching there is going to be great but I think it's such a dysfunctional relationship between Jones and the coaches. He wants to win and he wants what he wants, and those two things are incompatible and coaches can't win. They either keep him happy in the short term but then lose or they frustrate him in the short term and then just wear out their relationship with him (Parcells).

Although I don't really know the cowboys that well.

32 moore to blame

In reply to by Rich A

Also Jimmy Johnson to give more supporting evidence on your last comment. My post was a talking point i heard listening to a podcast, just prodding to get more insight. Appreciate the thoughts!

3 These Bears uniforms are so…

These Bears uniforms are so bad. Maybe wouldn't look terrible in a vacuum, but the stripes are just wrong.

4 It could be worse, and if it…

It could be worse, and if it's going to be this bad, I wish it was worse. Might as well do it right. They could have fit more stripes by having them go all the way up the pants, and also you could squeeze more on the shirts in a few areas. 

33 49ers as the sacrificial wild card

Whoever wins the tiebreak in the all 6-10 NFC East will host the 49ers in the wild card game. But the 49ers, however good they seem today, are doomed.

We've seen losing teams win a division twice. Both the 2014 Panthers and the 2010 Seahawks hosted a playoff game with 7 wins from 16 games. And they both won, against 11-5 teams.

A true division championship is just that much better than a defeated team squeaking in as a wild card.

34 The 2014 Panthers shouldn't…

The 2014 Panthers shouldn't count, considering they were going up against Ryan Lindley; they actually were favored by 6.5 points despite their record.

I'd replace them with the 2011 Denver Tebows, the second-biggest home dogs after the 2010 Seahawks. There was actually a bigger DVOA difference between Pittsburgh and Denver than between New Orleans and Seattle.

6 Some guy named J.P. Holtz …

Some guy named J.P. Holtz (with 2 career catches coming into the game) is channeling his inner Gronk and unleashing hell on Dallas.

7 If there's ever going to be…

If there's ever going to be a time we witness the unholy abomination of a team with a losing record winning the Super Bowl, it'll be this year with whoever wins the NFC East. According to DVOA both the Eagles and Cowboys are good enough that a lucky run in the playoffs might be within the realm of possibility.

9 Pretty sure they're going to…

In reply to by Ambientdonkey

Pretty sure they're going to need a run to even be division champs.

That seems the least likely part of them winning the NFC East.  Dallas and Philly losing out doesn't seem nearly as improbable.

11 Well, if Trubisky can…

Well, if Trubisky can suddenly channel the spirit of 2011 Aaron Rodgers, maybe Haskins can go all 2001 Tom Brady from here on out. Up is down, the sky is red, dogs and cats living together...

10 You cannot stop Mitchell…

You cannot stop Mitchell Trubisky. You can only hope to contain him.

Dallas can't even hope for that, apparently.

12 At this point, the most…

At this point, the most entertaining part of the game would be live feed of J Jones.

I'm beyond disappointed that I can't watch a picture-in-picture box of the Dallas private booth alongside the actual game action.

14 Apparently the Cowboys'…

Apparently the Cowboys' playoff odds will only drop by 6% with this loss. Meanwhile I assume the Bears' very long odds won't improve much with a win either. For a matchup between two 6-6 teams this game isn't going to matter much.

16 If the wildcard game is SF at Dal...

...where do you put the line? I'm thinking that might be the largest road underdog in the history of the playoffs.

19 Almost certainly not. I don…

Almost certainly not. I don't know what the line was for the infamous fluky Seahawks-Saints Wild Card Game, but I guarantee it was higher than what we'll see in a potential 49ers-Cowboys game. That Seattle team was genuinely awful. They were 30th in DVOA.

17 I haven't seen Dak Prescott…

I haven't seen Dak Prescott play all that much, relatively speaking, but from what I have seen, he's throwing way better this year than he has in the past. Great touch and accuracy, and generally "making things happen," where he used to (from what I remember) mostly just be good at zipping it to open receivers and not a ton else (arm-wise). I'm really impressed, and if I were a Cowboys fan, I'd be feeling a lot better about his inevitable contract (now, about that Elliott one...).

21 Prescott

He has made some amazing passes this year when I have watched them. There was a 2 pass sequence where he converted a fourth down I believe to Gallup in a tight window, and then hit another receiver on the next play while being hit that was very impressive. The offense obviously has all the pieces, but seems to fall just a little short of totally awesome. And since the defense isn’t very good and they don’t seem to be getting any help from their coaching, they are underachieving anyway. I should hate the Cowboys but I feel kind of sorry for them and prefer them to the Eagles. Could see them in a fun shootout with Seattle if they make the playoffs that they would inevitably lose unless the Earth starting spinning in reverse.

22 At this point I think it's…

At this point I think it's pretty safe to say that there's obviously something DVOA is missing about the Cowboys. Obviously they are better then there 6-7 record indicates but at the same time as a predictive tool I don't think DVOA is accounting for the Cowboys weaknesses, the most obvious candidate being coaching, which I'm guessing is somewhat related to team luck. I know this stuff doesn't seem to be correlated from year to year but maybe there is some relationship within seasons. This also seems to be why the Chargers are consistently overrated in this metric from year-to-year.

24 One thing is that Dallas is…

One thing is that Dallas is truly elite during garbage time, their offense practically unstoppable and their defense excellent. It's how they made the Jets, Packers, Bills and Bears games close at the end. But during normal game conditions against decent teams neither unit is very good, which is why they keep finding themselves down double digits so often.

28 box score

The box score agrees with DVOA.  It shows a very close game with Dallas possibly having the advantage.  Chicago had two turnovers, Dallas zero.  Dallas had more penalties, but not by much. 

The box score doesn't jibe with the game I saw at all.  Apparently the Cowboys were extremely productive on their first drive and then at the end, when the game was out of reach.  In the middle 40 minutes, they were thoroughly outclassed.  

Truly baffling.  As with the Buffalo game, they had a very impressive first drive, after which they floundered for a very long time.  Have they scripted the first drive and then, afterward, they need to improvise?  No matter how you slice it, this is definitely a coaching issue.  

29 Some of this is on Chicago,…

In reply to by RickD

Some of this is on Chicago, too.

The Lions did the same very early-very late success thing the Cowboys did.

30 Thanks to RickD

In reply to by RickD

RickD correctly used the word "jibe" instead of "jive."  One frequently sees things like "That doesn't jive with what I'm seeing," which, if you think about what the word actually means, is pretty funny.  

48 bow

In reply to by young curmudgeon

The other alternative would be to "jib" with something, but that only makes sense if you're sailing.



37 What has happened, and what…

What has happened, and what DVOA hasn't quite yet had opportunity to capture, is that the Dallas defense has collapsed completely. The offense may not quite be the best in the league as DVOA suggests, but it has still been performing ok the past few weeks against some very tough defenses (Patriots, Bills, Bears). The defense, meanwhile, has made Josh Allen and Mitch Trubisky look like all-pros. 

There's every chance this was a bad defense all along, and it was disguised early on by a very weak schedule. Before this week DVOA had them 20th, close to league average. But watching them get pushed around by the Bills and Bears, this could be bottom 5 unit by seasons end. 

25 Dallas is the new Cincinnati…

Dallas is the new Cincinnati, and Cincinnati is the new Cleveland. I don't know what the new Cleveland is.

38 Taysom Hill

I really don't get this Taysom Hill thing. Yes, he can do a lot of different things, but he can't do any of them nearly as well as the Saints' starters.

39 Drew Lock, who had only 134…

Drew Lock, who had only 134 yards passing all last week, already has 96 and a TD against the Texans defense. A fumble returned for another TD has Denver up 14-0.

40 Three seconds into the…

Three seconds into the second quarter, Drew Brees already has three touchdown passes against the fearsome 49ers defense, all of them to tight ends.

41 The Texans are being…

The Texans are being destroyed by Drew Lock. Another passing TD and he's now 9/11 for 173 yards and two TDs. This game shows what nonsense the concepts of momentum, statement games, and prime time games being magically more important than other games are. A week after a huge win Houston looks more likely to miss the playoffs entirely than make any noise there.

42 This Saints-Niners game is a…

This Saints-Niners game is a little nuts. 8 TDs so far, with the Saints about to receive the kickoff having 42 seconds and a TD to work with before halftime.


Edit: And apparently more TDs than incomplete passes.

46 The difference in this game…

The difference in this game is that the Saints went for 2 after one of their touchdowns when a penalty gave them the ball for the XP try at the one. Sean Payton had Taysom Hill run it out wide (!), and he didn't come close to getting in. But it was fun! 

43 Down by 21 the Texans go for…

Down by 21 the Texans go for it on fourth and one with two minutes left on their own side of the field. They don't make it and Denver eventually scores another TD to go up 31-3. What an astonishing blowout from what has been a terrible offense all season.

106 As the season goes on, things change.

The Broncos have finally found their franchise QB while the Pates are watching theirs face the reality of aging and having only one NFL-quality receiver to throw to.

The reason the Texans lost to the Broncos and beat the Pates is that the Broncos are now a better team than the Pates.

Too bad the Tits and Stealers results today have all but eliminated the Broncos.

44 Josh Allen is self…

Josh Allen is self-destructing vs the Ravens, almost as bad as he did vs the Pats earlier this year. Guess that improvement was a mirage. Defense is so legit though.

Starting to see the Bortles in Allen now. Thought he was on a upward trajectory, but apparently that was all the result of playing some garbage pass Ds.

45 The Packers looked like they…

The Packers looked like they were going to slaughter Washington but it's only 14-6. The Packers' o-line is bad and Washington's d-line is quite good, the great equalizer - as I type this, Rodgers gets stripped and turns it over, as they were driving and already in FG range (that was some pretty inexcusable carelessness to lose it by Rodgers, but Washington getting to him was mostly due to their talent).

Just before, though, we got a second-order Rodgers special, where they lined up on 4th and 5 doing the hard count, then actually snapped it when the clock hit 0 (posssssssibly could've been delay-of-game, it was close). Washington was hilariously unprepared; although the coverage held up, they had no rush at all, and Rodgers had probably literally over five seconds to sit back and wait for someone to get open, completely and totally unmolested. It was funny.

On the other side, Haskins looks really bad - no pocket awareness, little mobility, he had a pass batted by a guy running right at him that he easily could have thrown over if he had any concept of touch - and the Packers pass rush has been very effective (and Washington's o-line is bad, at least at pass pro). And he just got picked on a terrible decision, and may be hurt now, geez. He is not ready and I think continuing to play him might hurt his development. Put in some cannon fodder; for better or worse, you're married to this guy for the next couple of years.

Both Guice and Peterson have had some success running the ball - no surprise against the Packers - and it's almost criminal they're making Haskins throw as much as they are, when they've got a much better option, and it's only a 1 score game.

49 Guice is hurt and out, now…

Guice is hurt and out, now. The hit didn't look too bad but he stayed down for awhile after; I know I shouldn't speculate, but it seemed consistent with a broken patella, which might keep him out for more than just this game.

93 I don't know why teams don't…

I don't know why teams don't fake a hard count more - by which I mean telling the center "Ignore the signals, ignore the barking, the Peyton Manning chicken walk, everything... Just snap it when the 1 turns to 0..."

109 I think your specific…

I think your specific direction is difficult because the center won't necessarily be able to see the play clock (and if he could, then smart defenses would start blocking his line of vision).

But in general, I think this sort of play only works sometimes because timing is so important, especially for the center.  He has to snap the ball when his teammates are expecting it, and then immediately start blocking.  A slight delay in the latter could mean a busted play.

47 Boomer Esiason says Lamar…

Boomer Esiason says Lamar Jackson is almost the perfect player after a half in which Jackson had 30 yards passing. The hype around Jackson is getting a little much.

50 Absolute horsemanure PI call…

Absolute horsemanure PI call against Tramon Williams there. It would be nice if you could actually challenge PI penalties, wouldn't it.........

53 Miami hits seven FGs but…

Miami hits seven FGs but score no TDs and eventually lose at the gun on a Jets FG. That after Miami initially stopped New York on a fourth down play, only for the booth to overturn the play to pass interference.

56 George Kittle

He is Da Man.

58 Jameis Winston had the most…

Jameis Winston had the most Jameis Winston-esque stat line you could imagine today. He went 33-45 for 456 yards and three TDs, plus one rushing TD... along with three picks, including an 80-yard pick six.

59 Pats' O so far

Run into the line, run into the line, DPI
Run into the line, run into the line, DPI

McDaniel is a genius

60 and like that

In reply to by RickD

flea flicker for TD.

I guess McD couldn't bear up to my taunting.

63 comparing KC o and NE o

All you have to do is look at their screen passes. KC passes to a receiver with four blockers in front of him. NE passes to White surrounded by defenders.

64 There's some issues with the…

There's some issues with the line still, but everything Brady does is taking like a second longer than it did last year - and he's staring guys down before throwing. 

If he just doesn't trust the new guys he needs to get the fuck over that right now and do his job.  

I think that's an excuse though - and he's just not processing fast enough

65 Yes

Agree.  He's no right to chew guys out on sidelines the way he's been playing.

67 I'm like 90% sure at this…

In reply to by Frip88

I'm like 90% sure at this point that he's done as a top tier QB, and >50% sure he's done as a viable NFL quarterback. 

Hes getting pressured a lot, and the wr corps has changed, but he just looks slow and like he doesn't belong - and even when Reche Caldwell was their #1, he didn't look  like this. 


I'm really curious to see if BB waits until they've blown the season before giving Stidham a shot. 

68 Kind of an odd challenge for…

Kind of an odd challenge for New England - it looked like the Chiefs receiver caught it around the 39, right at the first down marker, but the ref spotted it at the 40. Belichick challenged that he didn't get the first (and that there was OPI) and failed. I think there wasn't enough evidence that he didn't get the 1st - he looked like he got it right on the line at worst - but the spot was clearly wrong. I thought there was some rule that if the challenge doesn't change the 1st down status it fails, but the spot was clearly wrong. It seems to me the spot should be changed, but NE should be charged a timeout (and lose the possibility of the 3rd challenge) - I swear I remember seeing that scenario play out before.

The spot may be academic because Kelce fumbles a couple of plays later, recovered by NE - who had an opportunity to take it back for 6, but the refs blew the whistle that Kelce was down, forcing them to blow their other challenge.

I have to say, I don't watch NE all that much, but from what i've seen, Belichick seems to challenge some fairly pointless things (even if he won the 1st one, is 4th and inches really that much better than 1st and 10, in the 3rd quarter, against this offense?). I don't know if it's bad advice, or trying to "stand up for his guys," or if he just lets his emotions get the best of him, but suboptimal challenge usage is one of his few relative weaknesses as a coach.

69 And now their guy scores,…

And now their guy scores, except he was ruled out, and they're out of challenges. New England has every right to be mad at the refs (that step was very close but clearly in bounds on review), but blowing that challenge on a mere 1st down ruling in the 3rd was a critical waste.

UPDATE: from 1st and goal at the 3, had a screen blown up, incomplete/dropped pass, sack, FG. Man that was a stupid challenge. You can say "the refs should have gotten it right" but they didn't really get the other call wrong - one midfield yard - and at any rate they will never be 100% perfect, so this is the system of recourse that teams have, and they didn't use it right, and it cost them 4 pretty significant points.

71 blaming BB?

If you think there's clearly OPI, at some point you're going to challenge a non-all, especially if it happens on the same play as a terrible spot.  

70 the motivatin

The primary motivation may have been the pick that Kelce made.  But  of course the NFL almost never reverses a non-PI call.  Still, the officials gave the Chiefs at least an extra yard, and then, bizarrely, didn't re-spot the ball even with video evidence.

But that pales in comparison to their two subsequent obvious mistakes: blowing the ball dead on the Pats' fumble recovery, followed by calling Harry out of bounds when replay clearly showed him in bounds.  But by then, the Pats were out of challenges.

People who think the officials rig things to help the Pats should watch this tape.  

Boger is regularly graded as the worst ref in the NFL.  I have no idea how he keeps  his job.  In addition to his mistakes above, Boger had at least three plays where he picked up the flag after his crew "changed their mind" - before the non-catch on third down in the end zone for the Pats.  (Mind you, that was a non-catch, but by initially calling it a TD, they caused the Pats to run off the field and need a time out to not get called for delay of game.)

Just dreadful officiating today.

76 And on cue, morganja is…

In reply to by RickD

And on cue, morganja is posting below you that they're throwing the game for the pats. 

98 Careful...

While I obviously agree with you, remember the first rule of football: it's the second man in who gets called for the foul, not the instigator. Since the moderators won't throw the flag on his conspiracy theory nonsense, the only thing you can do is ignore all his posts. 

114 If one doesn't like the…

If one doesn't like the Patriots they must therefore be an anti-Semitic Nazi. 
You are truly unhinged. 
Booing their 10-2 team after a historic run of success. Equating people who don't like their team with Nazis. What is wrong with the sports culture up there? 

104 Didn't get to see any games…

In reply to by RickD

Didn't get to see any games until now, I even missed the call that gave the Jets a loss in their tank bowl today, so I can't talk about the bad calls in the Pats game.  But I think Boger ran the crew in a Jets-Bears Monday Night game, where the Jets recovered an obvious fumble and returned it for an easy touchdown, but it was called back due to early whistling.  Really helped Rex Ryan's last year go south.  So he's done this before.

I think front runner bias happens, but it's not very likely in a game between two contenders.

73 131 yards of penalties for…

131 yards of penalties for the Chiefs so far. Typical critical game with playoff implications for the Patriots. But nothing to see here. Just another coincidence.

75 wow

The Patriots just had a TD taken off the board based on the false claim that the receiver was out of bounds.

You really need to seek some help.  Your complete incapability to be objective is fascinating.  On today, of all todays, to claim the officiating is favoring the Pats is remarkable.  If the officiating were favoring the Pats, they wouldn't have whistled the fumble recovery dead and they wouldn't have falsely claimed Harry was out of bounds.  

78 You're wasting your time.   …

In reply to by RickD

You're wasting your time. 


This is a person who argues during deflategate that Goodell was on Bob Kraft's payroll. 

He's comet pizza level crazy. 

80 You Patriot fans lack any…

You Patriot fans lack any self-awareness whatsoever. Do you even understand how horrible you sound to everyone else in the world when you are whining about how unfair the refs are being to the Patriots in a game that they have called 136 yards of penalties against their opponent?
Of course not. 
I'm the crazy one. Me and every other person outside of New England watching this charade of a game.

83 yes, you are

PI calls mean big yardage.  Unless you're going to find specific calls to dispute, you're just being lazy and assuming that a yardage discrepancy backs up your prejudices.  I note you do not dispute any of my complaints about this game's officiating.  You seem to think your position should be the default!  You're both biased and lazy: but of course bias is a flaw that correlates highly with intellectual laziness.


One last gem for you:



94 Do you have any self…

In reply to by RickD

Do you have any self-reflection whatsoever? My bias? The incredible entitlement Patriot fans feel to every close call, and every other call besides is just astounding. They have moved the goal post so many times that they literally feel cheated every time they lose. The refs did everything they could to help the Patriots win this one. 
Do you ever spend a second wondering how the fans of the 31 other teams feel? We have to put up with close calls going 50-50, or a little worse. Yet here are the Patriot fans incensed that they only got the benefit of a 90-10 split. 

112 It does sort of balance out…

In reply to by RickD

It does sort of balance out the first "drive" in which half of NE's yardage was unearned DPIs. That was the point at which I turned the game off and watched something less annoying.

74 I was readying a post to say…

I was readying a post to say that my armchair gut says that you shouldn't go for an FG on 4th and goal, up 3, with less than 2 minutes to go (like the Steelers just did). then the Cardinals' final drive was sack, sack, incompletion, interception. Duck kneels to run the clock out for the win, and Tomlin has his most unlikely non-losing season.

77 If NE ties this up I have a…

If NE ties this up I have a hard time seeing how they lose. KC has done nothing on offense for a long time now.

81 Wow, what a play by Breeland…

Wow, what a play by Breeland. That was one of the cleanest pass defenses you'll ever see, on the most critical play no less.

Once upon a time, you couldn't count out Touchdown Tom...

84 wow`

You're blaming the loss on Tom Brady?

He doesn't have Gronk this year.  That makes a difference.  Wasn't a bad pass, but good D by KC.  Of  course, had the officiating not blown the call on the Harry TD, the Pats would have only needed a FG to tie the game.  

87 No, not at all, he played…

In reply to by RickD

No, not at all, he played well down the stretch. It's more of a comment on the offense's general decline (by referencing an old Jon Bois meme); that felt like the kind of ending they usually won in years past.

88 169 yards and a pick on 36…

In reply to by RickD

169 yards and a pick on 36 pass attempts plus a pick isn't very good. The defense is what keeps the Patriots in games. The offense can't do more than scuffle along in its current state.

90 Brady has been uniformly…

Brady has been uniformly terrible for 5 or 6 weeks now. 

The offense is absolutely a problem, and while he's not the only problem, he's a very big part


91 Some of the worst…

Some of the worst officiating I've ever seen. And on big plays. Then to top it off, DB literally prevents Dorsett's arms from raising to catch the ball. No call. This is why I hardly watch this sport anymore.

95 Well, Goff looked pretty…

Well, Goff looked pretty damn good that first drive. I noticed a couple of designed rollouts, which he had a lot of success on last week (and last year).

100 That pick six is just what…

That pick six is just what this game needed from the perspective of a neutral hoping for more competitive game. The Rams were on the verge of blowing this one wide, wide open.

102 How Can Packers Be This Lucky?

GB was poor for most of the game against Washington-- mainly the offense. Not surprising in the context of their season. And yet if Seattle loses this game the Packers don't even have to beat the Vikings in Minnesota in two weeks to a) win the division and b) potentially get a bye depending on how the Saints and the two West teams finish the year. I confess not to know those tiebreakers (GB has division record advantage over MINN) but for GB to even be in the conversation is nuts. Of course they could easily lose to the rejuvenated Bears at Lambeau next week and end up as the #6 seed

107 The Redskins may have come…

The Redskins may have come out especially strong today against Green Bay. This was the game where they were eliminated from playoff contention and their season-long Super Bowl dreams finally came to an end.

If they'd won today and then closed out by beating each of the other NFC East teams in their final three games, they'd have had a decent chance at winning the division and hosting a home playoff game. They just needed to win here.

105 As a rams fan, probably the…

As a rams fan, probably the most encouraging game of the entire year. Defense gives up 6 points to the Hawks, and the offensive playcalling was absolutely on point for the entire game. Gurley on that touchdown run looked like the Gurley of 2017. Higbee keeps getting open and making catches. Finally, Goff looked really sharp the entire game. This felt like the kind of game where the offense could have scored 42 points no problem, and to see that against the Seahawks is like an early Christmas.

108 Guessing Brees is going to…

Guessing Brees is going to have the highest DYAR game of the year with that performance. Shame they still took the L.

116 After a profoundly dull…

After a profoundly dull first quarter, Eli puts the Giants on the board, thanks to a blown tackle by the Eagles allowing Slayton to motor for the score.

Eagles get down inside the 5 after the Giants decide they'd rather not bother covering Ertz, but the drive stalls out on a questionable holding penalty.

Alshon Jeffrey went off with a non-contact lower leg injury. Hope it's nothing too bad, but... it looked pretty bad.

The field appears pretty wet and Wentz already lost a fumble. With two strong-arm, iffy-accuracy passers involved, this could get pretty wild or be totally unwatchable, depending how the randomness shakes out.

117 Ugh, now Lane Johnson goes…

Ugh, now Lane Johnson goes off after Wentz got hit into the side of his knee. He walked off, apparently, but now he's on the cart to the locker room. They said it was an "ankle injury" which is surprising and hopefully means it's not as bad as it looked.

118 This Manning kid looks…

This Manning kid looks pretty good. I wonder if the Giants should play him for the rest of the season and sit Jones, just to see what they have in Manning.

120 Eli with 179 yards and 2 TDs…

Eli with 179 yards and 2 TDs at the half lol. Steve Slayton split 2 CBs for a long bomb; one (McLeod) just gave up and jogged after he got beat. He might not be on the roster tomorrow (or tonight), injury issues be damned.

Philly boo birds are out in full force. Can't say it's not deserved.

But Eli honestly looks really good, just physically. He's still got the arm and he's moving pretty well. I thought he was pretty much washed earlier in the year but he's still got something in the tank. He ought to have a starting job next year if he wants one (Chicago?).

121 Wow, I guess no one wants to…

Wow, I guess no one wants to win the NFC East this year.

It’s kind of ridiculous that if the Niners win their next 2 and then lose in Seattle, they’ll have to go on the road in the wildcard round at 13-3 to be hosted by whoever “wins” this division, potentially at 6-10!