Football Outsiders

Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis

Week 2 Open Discussion Thread

Better late than never, it's the Week 2 Open Discussion Thread! Use this thread to discuss anything from the ugly Thursday night affair between Tampa Bay and Carolina, to all of Sunday's action (Lamar vs. Kyler! Vikings vs. Packers! Saints vs. Rams! Eagles vs. Falcons!), and the Monday night game between the Browns and Jets. 


102 comments, Last at 16 Sep 2019, 11:28pm

1 Seriously, mono? This is why…

Seriously, mono? This is why you don't draft a college quarterback who didn't graduate.

Although, maybe this Darnold's plan to get rid of Gase. Hope it's working.

2 A couple things from the…

A couple things from the Thursday game:

* Why is the league cracking down on Kyler Murray's pre-snap clapping but no one else's? I've now seen Matt Ryan and Cam Newton draw the defense offsides by clapping.

* Huge game by Shaq Barrett for Tampa. I was always a fan of his when he was in Denver. As great as Bradley Chubb is, I have to wonder whether it would have been smarter to keep Barrett and draft somebody else to help some other position.

* That playcall on 4th and 2. LOL.

4 Newton

Newton must be carrying a fairly significant injury. How many games in his career has he finished with 0 rushing yards? And removing him from the field for the critical short yardage play at the end? Wow. If the wear and tear has taken its toll on him to the point that he can’t even threaten to run the ball, then he’s done. 



5 And did you notice how slow…

In reply to by BJR

Did you notice how slow he was to get up after kneeling in the huddle? I didn't think much of it at the time--Cam does a lot of things that seem lazy or lethargic but really aren't--but people on twitter were saying that might be an effect of an injury.

9 Newton

In reply to by BJR

Newton wqs in on all Caroliba offensive snaps including that play

8 I've seen clapping flagged…

I've seen clapping flagged for a false start in a few games besides the Cards so there does appear to be a 'crackdown' beyond Kyler Murray but it hasn't been consistent. I.e. some games I'm seeing it flagged and others not at all.

7 That's not trolling, that's…

That's not trolling, that's a stupid way to start a game, especially when the Dolphins' best player will probably cover him.  The last time I saw a team do something like was Geno Smith force-feeding the ball to Percy Harvin, whom the Jets had just traded for.  Smith's statline: 2 of 8 for 5 yards and 3 interceptions.  Call a play, but telling Tom Brady to throw to a certain guy is Jets level stupid.

6 Thursday game

That game was really awful. Quality of the football was dreadful. Made the Chicago/GB look tremendous.

10 Predictions for today:…

Predictions for today:
Baltimore 24 Arizona 14
Dallas 28 Washington 24
Tennessee 23 Indianapolis 17
Pittsburgh 30 Seattle 14
Buffalo 14 New York Giants 10
Cincinnati 27 San Francisco 16
Detroit 21 Los Angeles Chargers 17
Green Bay 17 Minnesota 10
Houston 31 Jacksonville 13
New England 37 Miami 14
Kansas City 31 Oakland 28
New Orleans 34 Los Angeles Rams 30
Chicago 20 Denver 14
Atlanta 29 Philadelphia 26
Cleveland 27 New York Jets 17

11 The Panthers had about as…

The Panthers had about as depressing a start to the season as you can have. The combination of losing your first game and then again on the Thursday means your season is close to being done just four days after it started. Months and months of off-season anticipation gone in just a few days. They were even both home games. Panthers were supposed to be a decent team this year, too. But the worst part for Panthers fans is that their star player looks like he has serious injury issues and might never be right again.

20 I can only see the…

I can only see the highlights. I’m stuck in a hotel room at London Heathrow. But Cook looked like Barry Sanders on that play. Cook has always had the talent. He just hasn’t stayed healthy. 

Packers are looking good though. Wish I could watch it. 

26 You Don't Anymore

Vikings have taken over game. Packers short yardage offense horrendous-- bad snap leads to Rodgers fumble. Cousins starting to exploit Packer secondary

15 Vinatieri missed another…

Vinatieri missed another extra point. That's six missed FGs or XPs in the past three games. He may be done.

17 I see they opted to kick a…

I see they opted to kick a FG on 2nd and Goal from the 4 with with two seconds left. I think it would be reasonable to go for the TD there. On the other hand, as the favorite perhaps taking the lower risk option is wiser.

19 My complaint is not about…

My complaint is not about kicking the field goal there, which I think is at worst defensible. My complaint is not using timeouts earlier in the drive, which meant that there were 2 seconds left at that point when there could have been 30 or 40.

25 I don't know what the…

I don't know what the numbers say, but in the context of a low-scoring game with field-position a non-issue I personally would kick (and I'm generally pretty aggressive about this stuff).

23 It's incredible how many…

It's incredible how many times the Cardinals have kicked on short yardage when they should be going for it in just the first two games of the season. The latest example comes facing fourth and goal from the two, trailing by 11.

39 Theory on Coaches

I have a theory that coaches choose against 4th down go for it choices to limit the number of critical play calls in the game, and that this is self interest rational for them (but not for the team).  Basically many GMs and Owners overreact to the number of failures at critical points of a game (and do not view this in percentage of success), and make firing decisions based on this.  Therefore, as a coach who wants longevity, you should make some "avoid the critical playcall" decisions unless it is the latest possible moment in the game.

42 Well said, this explains a…

In reply to by Dan_L

Well said, this explains a lot of otherwise-inexplicable decision-making. I've also read that many offensive coordinators will prepare only 2-3 high-leverage "sure-thing" plays per game. (Obviously the better solution is to prepare more plays, but this is a tradition-repecting league.)

24 "He’s careful with the…

"He’s careful with the football—aside from fumbles" says FOA of Minshew. So far, that "aside from fumbles" is looking pretty significant.

28 I love that the announcers…

I love that the announcers think that Miami's total lack of offensive output has anything to do with the Patriots defense. Man, if there ever was a game that you can't learn *anything* about a team from, it's this one...

29 Tytus Howard is having a…

Tytus Howard is having a horror show out there. He may be a good NFL lineman one day, but he sure as Hell isn't yet.

30 AAAAAAAARGH! You don't think…

AAAAAAAARGH! You don't think you might want that timeout (and the one you blew on an obviously doomed challenge earlier) in your attempt to drive for a field goal in 30 seconds, BOB?

31 The fact that the Texans…

The fact that the Texans were still going to have 30 seconds left to drive for a winning FG is why I doubt that the decision to go for two was the right call for the Jags. Kicking the XP means you probably get OT. Going for two has less upside since a successful conversion doesn't guarantee you win.

32 Apparently Zimmer emailed…

Apparently Zimmer emailed the announcers the "Vikings are 450-1 when they run the ball 25 times" stat, and the announcers ate it up without question. Well, they're 450-2 now. A couple of ugly throws into coverage by Cousins down the stretch aren't likely to change his opinion after the loss.

It's so weird for defensive coaches to be like this. Don't they notice that their defenses have a harder time against the pass than the run? Don't they think it might be the same for the guy on the other side of the field also?

33 Miami has given up 102…

Miami has given up 102 points after two games, which is tied for worse with the 1973 New Orleans Saints. (Both teams are also tied for the second worse point differential through two games, behind the 1961 Al Davis-less Raiders.)

35 The Packers pass rush and…

The Packers pass rush and secondary were great for the second week in a row, even held in there late as they were starting to get gassed, which probably showed up more in the running game than in pass defense.

That said - Cousins was so, so, so bad today. It's tough when you're under as much pressure as he was, no doubt, but he still missed receivers when they were open, and the INT in the end zone was unconscionable. His long TD to Diggs should have been broken up if not intercepted. Should have been picked again at the end of the game. He did hang in there on the big play to Beebe, but it was really a nice play by Beebe to stop his route and a total coverage bust. Vikings could have won that game with replacement-level QB play today.

40 Looks like he jammed his…

Looks like he jammed his fingers pretty bad. I think it was more than one, since his hand went right into Aaron Donald's (considerably larger) one. I would be surprised if he missed a lot of time, but it's impossible to tell right now.

38 Issac Yiadom should not be…

Issac Yiadom should not be on an NFL team. He can't cover, he can't tackle. You can't tell me there isn't a street free agent who can't match that performance. Why did Elway think a new tight end was more important than help at CB?

80 Isaac


I'm only correcting because it's the second comment in a row with the misspelling; don't want it to spread! 


(Amazingly, Isaac Asimov had his name misspelled as "Issac" in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary [Eleventh Edition] -- the one used by most of the New York publishing industry -- in their Biographical Names section.)

41 Saints getting screwed again…

Saints getting screwed again. Even Mike Pereira referred to it as a brutal mistake by the officials, and the "rules analysts" usually love to defend them.

Jared Goff definitely looked like he threw a forward pass in real time, but it was clear from replay that the ball was out before his arm moved forward. The mistake was the officials calling the play dead, when in a fumble vs. incomplete situation, they should always let the play go unless it's strikingly obvious. It wasn't and the Saints were robbed of a Cam Jordan Big Man TD. They turned it over on downs.

71 If anything even remotely…

If anything even remotely close to that had happened to the Patriots, there would be no end to the hyper-ventilating paroxysms. But I guess when your owner is best buds with the gambling mobster head, you don't ever have to worry about that sort of thing. You can just enjoy your unending stream of 'miracles'.