Week 4 Open Discussion

Los Angeles Ram CB Jalen Ramsey
Los Angeles Ram CB Jalen Ramsey
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

Trevor Lawrence and the Jacksonville Jaguars (0-3) visit Cincinnati to face Joe Burrow and the Bengals (2-1) in a battle of the last two first overall draft picks on Thursday Night Football. Notable Sunday afternoon games including Carolina (3-0) at Dallas (2-1), Arizona (3-0) at the L.A. Rams (3-0), and Baltimore 2-1) at Denver (3-0). The Sunday night game sees Tampa Bay (2-1) at the Patriots (1-2) in a game that seems totally uninteresting with no intriguing subplots that come to mind, while the Las Vegas Raiders (3-0) visit the L.A. Chargers (2-1) on Monday Night Football. Use this thread to discuss them all. 

Comments

177 comments, Last at 04 Oct 2021, 11:38pm

#1 by Englethorpe // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:19pm

...has a glitch for getting rid of Lambo.

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#4 by ImNewAroundThe… // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:21pm

It won't let me change any of my players to anybody else!

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#5 by Englethorpe // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:28pm

Was able to get rid of Hyde at RB no problem, but trying to change any kicker results in "error occurred please refresh page" infinite loop.

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#10 by Englethorpe // Sep 30, 2021 - 8:06pm

..."Plaxico's Gun Safety School" would really really REALLY love to get some of that sweet "Matty Wright" leg action goin' on tonite.

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#11 by Englethorpe // Sep 30, 2021 - 8:26pm

Would be cool to know at some point what the glitch was though. It's free and loser league, which sets the bar low. But also sometimes the most rediculous things are the best for focused competition. Tried multiple browsers, logging in and out of each, clearing cache and adblockers, etc etc. Would just be good intel for planning ahead when maybe a choice player gets DQd again two hours before kickoff. Meantime, fuck you Urban Meyer.

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#16 by Dan // Sep 30, 2021 - 10:17pm

My guess is that the system was treating guys who are Out (like Lambo) the same as guys who have already played, putting them both in the same grayed out 'don't pick these guys' section. So it was applying the 'if you already picked this guy then you can't get rid of him' rule, which is supposed to apply to guys who have already played but shouldn't have applied here.

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#22 by Englethorpe // Oct 01, 2021 - 1:04am

Placemarker “oh you don’t say?!” gene wilder gif here. Ja, obs. So a heads up on whether that glitch mebe addressed for week 5 and/or intel on how early to check on lineups before kickoff would be cool. Removing Carlos Hyde from the loser league running back spot thankfully worked an hour before kickoff, but no kicker changes were accepted. A 3pt floor at the spot would have been nice to start the week, but shit happens especially with free stuff and it’s a long season yada yada. But going forward, planning knowledge would be nice over guesses. 

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#25 by FO Customer Service // Oct 01, 2021 - 1:47pm

Sorry about the glitch. We have it fixed now.

Please reach out to customer service at fo-support@edjsports.com so we can hook you up with a replacement kicker.

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#2 by ImNewAroundThe… // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:20pm

Ah a couple week 1 of career starting QBs. Crazy both are still alive!

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#3 by nat // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:20pm

*Snort*

…a game that seems totally uninteresting with no intriguing subplots that come to mind

Well played, sir. Well played.

Too bad the game itself is likely to be a snooze-fest.

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#7 by af16 // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:38pm

Chase is gonna rip this defense up.

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#9 by tigersbaseball1989 // Sep 30, 2021 - 7:49pm

Any opinions on Marvin Jones?

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#12 by ImNewAroundThe… // Sep 30, 2021 - 8:39pm

Good thing they picked Chase because the depth after that is scary.

Some good play designs by Zac Taylor??

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#13 by ImNewAroundThe… // Sep 30, 2021 - 8:47pm

How bad is it down there??

And a Jags RB TD! That's why you spend a first on em!

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#14 by ImNewAroundThe… // Sep 30, 2021 - 8:57pm

there with an impact play. Jags getting the ball back with a lead...

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#15 by vrao81 // Sep 30, 2021 - 9:52pm

Who are these Jags and how are they leading at halftime?

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#17 by DIVISION // Sep 30, 2021 - 10:27pm

...who gave up 21 unanswered to my Cards last week.

Now they've give up that 14 points lead.

At least they're consistent.

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#18 by DIVISION // Sep 30, 2021 - 11:08pm

...that young Burrow is ready to close out the game.

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#19 by theTDC // Sep 30, 2021 - 11:26pm

Very impressed by both quarterbacks in this game. Burrow looked fantastic in the second half, but Lawrence made some plays all through the game. That corner route that looked out at first glance was as good of a throw as it was a catch. Lawrence at least is going to succeed in the NFL, even if he’s the only QB from this class.

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#20 by Spanosian Magn… // Sep 30, 2021 - 11:56pm

That was a surprisingly fun game.

I wonder if this makes it more likely that Urban Meyer Petrinos the heck out of there, or if he feels more motivated to stay around and try to save face, because Petrino had three wins when he threw in the towel.

Looking ahead for Jacksonville, it's funny, the only team I would be shocked if they beat would be the Rams - but the only team I might favor them over are the Jets (who cannot possibly stay this bad... can they?). Following similar logic as discussed in this week's Scramble, realistically that adds up to a few wins probabilistically (maybe 3-4?) - though if the team quits on the coach, who knows?

I believe Petrino and Lou Holtz are tied at 3-10 for worst record among "famous" college coaches in the pros. Before the season, I would have been shocked if Urban Meyer finished worse than them, but looking at the Jags' schedule, it's realistic that he might.

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#21 by theTDC // Oct 01, 2021 - 12:06am

If the jaguars are the 32nd best team in the NFL, they certainly didn’t play that way tonight. The defence is admittedly pretty soft, but it doesn’t seem trainwreck bad, just sort of run of the mill mediocre-bad. The offence around Lawrence is also fairly mediocre-bad, but Lawrence himself is a gem. If he can just keep playing as well as he played this game, I can see them winning a third of their games from here on out, which would give them a roughly 5-12 record.

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#23 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 01, 2021 - 1:17am

I agree the Jags looked decent enough tonight, but - and here's where I might be way wrong - I still don't think the Bengals are particularly good, regardless of their gaudy defensive VOA so far. At the end of the day, Jax scored 21 points against a middling team, about the same as the Bears managed (and better than the Steelers - I'm willing to believe Lawrence is better than Roethlisberger at this point) - and this was still one of their more winnable games.

They're not beating any real contenders (Bills, Rams). While Lawrence looks pretty good, I can't see them winning a shootout against a good offense/bad defense team this year (Titans, Seahawks, I'd put the Falcons in this category though that's mostly based on being 13th in passing offense last year...). That leaves games against Miami, Indy (2x), SF, Jets, Pats, and Houston (who are poo, but who already blew them out once): are they really winning 4-5 of those? Even if Atlanta is in the "beatable" category, that's a .500 record against mostly superior teams.

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#24 by theTDC // Oct 01, 2021 - 1:35pm

I think you’re seriously underestimating both the Bengals defence and the Jaguars offence. First, they only scored 21 points, but went for it on fourth down to go up 21-0 and failed, inches from the end zone. They could have at least scored 24 points, and probably deserved something like that. Second, the Bengals have looked quite good on defence, with that -24.0 DVOA. Cut that in half and they’re still a great defence. Bring it down to average and, okay, they’re still a solid defence.

The average points scored in an NFL game is about 23.5 per side. So the Jaguars deserved to get slightly more than the average points against an at least average defence. I think that kind of talent is going to win more than a couple games even this season when the dice are on their side.

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#26 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 12:48pm

1.  Zach Wilson. If you can not move the ball against Tennessee, are you anointed the next Sam Darnold?  Should we make a movie about you called, "Escape from New York?"  Next year will mark the 20th anniversary of the Herm Edwards rant, "You play to win the game, I don't care if you don't have any wins at all, you play to win the game."  Newsflash:  The Jets don't have any wins at all.  They will play to win the game today.  Most likely, they will not.

2. Andy Dalton or Justin Fields?  Dalton at 27th DYAR and 28th at DVOA ranks so far ahead of Fields (32nd DYAR, 34th or last in DVOA) that the playoff odds report dings the Bears -10% DAVE for the Dalton injury.  There is still time to trade for Mitch Trubisky.  Nick Foles is in the mix of awful Bears QB soup.

3.  Moving up the ladder to Daniel Jones (has this phrase ever been used before)?  if so, it was a very short ladder.  If he does not play like complete garbage today, he must move up from "Daniel Jones sucks" to what on earth should the Giants do with this mediocre QB?  How bad are the other 52 Giants if they move to 0-4?

4.  Teddy Bridgewater.  In a post before the season I joked that a prop bet at +9000 should be for Bridgewater to finish in the top 5 in ALEX.  Right now he is number 7, so if you found that bet in Vegas and took it you are looking good.  If you found that bet, more likely that you are hallucinating in the desert somewhere.

 

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#29 by Joey-Harringto… // Oct 03, 2021 - 1:38pm

So far Fields looks great against this putrid Lions secondary.  I’d like to think that saving Matt Nagy’s job is a long con by the Lions.

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#92 by mansteel // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:43pm

Well, Jones sure as heck didn't suck today. I missed the first part of the game, but from when I started watching he was 23 of 28 for about 300 yards, 2 TDs and no turnovers. The five incompletions were a Hail Mary, two awful drops, one throwaway under pressure, and one I don't remember. Nice to see him get a result; he's played well all year. 

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#27 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 1:09pm

Earth to Eagles, the Chiefs offense is still great, go for 4th and 3 in red zone

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#28 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 1:33pm

Announcer: "Sirianni said, 'We will be aggressive any time we can.'"

The first, most obvious opportunity notwithstanding, apparently.

I guess Mahomes et al. slicing through that defense like melted butter jolted some sense into him? They went for it there and got it fairly easily. Although I'm not sure this "never block any pass rushers and hope to lob it over them before Hurts gets mauled" tactic will hold up in the long term, even against the Chiefs' defense.

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#31 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 1:44pm

Eagles base offense seems kinda good. Especially with a lot of young guys

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#32 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:08pm

With the caveat that it's the Chiefs' defense, yeah very much, especially relative to my expectations. Although I was going to say I was pretty impressed with how much Hurts has improved from last year, and then he threw that terrible lob that was very nearly picked. But at risk of jinxing them, there's a realistic chance they go into the half with the lead here, and it's not turnover luck or something else fluky, it's just going toe-to-toe with probably the best passing offense in the game and holding their own.

UPDATE: Well I jinxed them.

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#33 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:16pm

Holy crap the Eagles tried to run a RB screen and all 3 downfield blockers got pancaked by their guy, so the Chiefs obliterated it.

They've called about 100 screens, and while I can't say they haven't worked, generally, the blocking has been subpar to nonexistent, as there. I think the idea is to slow down the pass rush since the Eagles' o-line isn't good (that fearsome Chiefs pass rush), but it's just not going to put enough points on the board if that's all they do, even if they had the personnel to consistently spring the guy for long catch-and-runs, which they don't.

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#34 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:19pm

Davis Mills 1-7  3 yards 2 picks, the bottom standard

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#35 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:28pm

I now see why they are where they are.  They have trouble stopping the Eagles basic play designs and just aren't getting those stops.

This is going to be a game the Chiefs only win because of Mahomes and a few key throws.

They look like the worst team in the AFC West.

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#48 by herewegobrowni… // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:55pm

Looks like KC is pulling away in the Walrus Bowl, 35-23.

Still think 10-7 or 11-6 is their floor, which may or may not be enough to put them in "at least make the playoffs and go from there" territory. 

Josh Gordon may be active next week vs. BUF...

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#36 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:34pm

They're still in the Browns game and are showing some fight.

I hope they pull it out for Zimmer's sake.

If they can beat the Browns, they can surely beat the Packers.

 

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#47 by herewegobrowni… // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:52pm

Big repeated gunslinger misses by Baker  give MIN the ball, then Dalvin Cook has a nice 1st down. 3 minutes left.

Edit, then after a steady drive by the Vikes, two big stops by Cle defense basically ends it, the latter with a Cousins doing a Brandon Weeden-esque flip that mercifully landed on the ground (same result, turnover on downs.)

 

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#37 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:38pm

Sam Darnold is on pace for 21 rushing TDs this year lol.

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#41 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:54pm

They aren't going anywhere with Darnold.  He's serviceable, but not someone you want long-term.

They also traded Dan Arnold, which was foolish.  Their defense is already elite.  They didn't need another corner.  They needed to give a limited Darnold all the help he could get.

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#67 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:24pm

If my QB's named Darnold, there is no chance in hell I'd ever trade a guy named Dan Arnold. A good pun is worth at least three wins in my book.

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#68 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:26pm

Please stop acting like D. Arnold is that great.

They needed another CB (all teams do actually) because Jaycee Horn (a rookie they were relying on) got hurt. Depth is also important.

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#38 by Mike B. In Va // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:45pm

Houston has -23 passing yards at the half. Sheesh

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#102 by IlluminatusUIUC // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:15pm

The Bills had a tendency to let teams back into games last year (including a blown 4 score lead to Jared Goff at home). But they have been absolutely standing on people's necks since that Pitt loss. 

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#161 by Mike B. In Va // Oct 04, 2021 - 10:50am

The offense has been wobbly, but the defense hasn't this year. They are not playing around.

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#39 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:51pm

When did Mahomes contract Jets QB Disease? This is two weeks in a row, I believe, where he threw a terrible pointless lob with to avoid a sack and had it picked.

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#40 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 2:52pm

...he's always done that.  The difference is now those lobs are being caught by the defense, not Hill or Kelce.

His TO-worthy plays have gone up significantly.

He's going to need to adjust because teams are now looking for those 50/50 balls.

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#43 by Raiderfan // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:27pm

Watching this Dallas offense against the “best” defense in the NFL, I am thinking higher of the Bucs defense than I have all year.

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#46 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:49pm

In reply to by Raiderfan

They were only going to go as far as that defense could take them.  They're trash on offense.  Dallas has a good offense, so it's not shocking that it's turned in to a blowout.

Rhule is a good coach, but I question what he's doing on the offensive side of the ball.  Losing your star RB/WR shouldn't tank your whole offense. 

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#44 by vrao81 // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:30pm

Trevon Diggs has 5 ints this year 

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#45 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 3:48pm

Oof, Eagles had a beautiful TD taken off the board because the receiver went out of bounds before catching it. Offhand I can't remember seeing that on a regular passing play before. I thought he was forced out and reestablished, for what it's worth.

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#49 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 4:17pm

McKissic scores TD when going down at 1 wins in only needing a FG lets see if Atlanta can score TD on flip side

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#50 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 4:35pm

How many more TDs passes Rodgers has then Ben. Despite being drafted later and sitting 3 full years

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#95 by justanothersteve // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:59pm

AR - 420 (somehow appropriate for a native Californian)

Big Ben - 400 

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#103 by DisplacedPackerFan // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:23pm

To try and weed out the time on the bench and games lost to injury.

AR - 420 in 194 starts (201 games) so 2.16 per start or 2.09 per game.
BR - 400 in 235 starts (237 games) so 1.70 per start or 1.69 per game.

20 more in 36 less games (or 41 less starts) matters. That's 3.22 points per game.

But yeah Ben has been in the league for 1 more year (drafted 2004) and been a starter for 4 more years than Rodgers (drafted 05 first start 08) so having more at all does feel a bit weird. I mean Ben has 9239 yards and 1297 more attempts than Rodgers too. I guess that's what 6.3 vs 5.0 TD% gets you over a large span of time.

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#51 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 4:56pm

Didn't see the Jets-Titans game but it looked like the Titans decided to play for the tying FG in OT and missed it. Good on the Jets for pulling off the upset. Zach Wilson's numbers at the half were pretty grim but he hit a couple of big plays in the second half and OT. It's not quite a breakout but it's progress.

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#54 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:03pm

I didn't see the game, but this result and the Giants' game remind me again of how difficult it is to go 0-for in the NFL.

DET and JAX up next for Ws at some unexpected point.

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#60 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:51pm

Especially Detroit. Tampa was an expansion team, and Jacksonville's roster was clearly built for tanking; Detroit had enough talent to win at least 4 games. 

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#52 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:01pm

Cards about to go up 21-10 in the 2nd quarter.

Stafford with that fresh pick!

 

 

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#53 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:03pm

Impact play forcing immobile Ben to fumble

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#55 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:19pm

I'm still waiting for that Rashan Gary breakout. I thought last year was a big step forward and that he might graduate into double-digit sack territory this season, but so far he hasn't done much.

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#57 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:36pm

up from 67.1 but jut need him to be solid enough to make it through his rookie contract. Can't expect everyone to be Brian Burns.

But they should move him around to the interior for a few more plays each game to keep offenses on their toes.

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#56 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:23pm

Bankshot!

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#58 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:41pm

About to go up 28-13 before half-time.

Now, its about holding on to that lead.

Murray has outplayed Stafford and the Cards defense has definitely impressed.

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#59 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:49pm

Terrible, potentially game-changing offsides call at the end of the first half of PIT-GB. It seems like the officials thought, "They must have been offsides go in untouched and block it". 

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#61 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 5:53pm

They need to win that game if they're to be taken seriously.

Pittsburgh will likely finish 3rd or last in their division.

Green Bay should win their division.

Surprised this game is close at all.

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#62 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:00pm

Yeah that was weird. Terrible call. And didn't the official call it 1st down afterwards at first, too? Someone's head isn't where it's supposed to be.

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#64 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:01pm

Good on CBS for showing the replay, which clearly showed the center moving the ball before Haden and Fitzpatrick crossed the line.

Bang-bang play for sure, but why are the refs throwing a flag on a play like that, when it wasn't clear that the defenders jumped?

10-point swing on that one play.

Still not as bad a call as the DAL fumble that was bizarrely called not a fumble due to forward progress when the very first defender to hit Schultz caused the fumble while stopping his forward progress. 

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#66 by DisplacedPackerFan // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:19pm

Yeah until that last replay it looked like the defenders were moving before the snap, which the refs are going to call. It was a missed call, but I get why it was blown.

The Watt trip was as blatant as the one called against Alexander in the prior week so Packers fans are going to be really hot on that one since they are very aware of it now. But it felt like the refs trying to even things out which I hate even more. Making a bad call to make up for a bad call. 

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#96 by justanothersteve // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:02pm

I agree on the movement of the ball vs players. I would like to see it down the LOS to see if maybe someone lined up offsides. I thought both players on the side that blocked the FG may have lined up offside, but I didn't see a sideline cam shot. 

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#65 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:09pm

The Packers have converted I believe 7/9 3rd downs so far, though they've mostly been short.

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#69 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:28pm

for the Cobb trade. My 27-10 prediction in the other thread is on point (STOP THE COUNT).

 

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#71 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:34pm

Heh, I thought that trade was a preposterous waste by a GM just trying to throw 12 a bone. Happy to be wrong! I always liked him but I thought he was toast years ago.

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#72 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:37pm

listening to your players and getting a safety blanket for a late round pick.

2nd highest graded WR on the team entering the game and I don't think that's gonna change whatsoever. Depth is important.

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#75 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:40pm

Yeah his DVOA was pretty good too, but I put all that down to a good QB and small sample size. But so far he's doing pretty much exactly what he did last time he was in green and gold.

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#77 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:47pm

64.4 grade in 2017 then 60.2 in 2018. Looked like injuries were really affecting him.

But rebounded nicely in Dallas then Houston. Things happen. Fine process, I was ok letting him go. More than happy to part a mid day 3 pick to make Rodgers comfortable and bring him back though. 

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#70 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:31pm

Randall Cobb and AJ Green have both found the fountain of youth early in this season.

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#73 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:38pm

Wow, Jaire Alexander blew up a screen on 4th down but somehow didn't actually get the guy down - sort of flipped him up and over his own body onto his feet (others did stop him short, probably ending the Steelers' hopes, realistically). I hope he isn't concussed, he stayed down and had the medical staff pay a visit, though he's walking off.

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#111 by DisplacedPackerFan // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:47pm

It's being reported as a shoulder injury, but he did miss the 4th quarter which had me worried as I still don't know what this defense is as the only things that resemble a real NFL offense they have played dropped 38 (NO) and 28 (SF) on them. Stokes is a clear upgrade over King and even if King were healthy should and hopefully would be starting over him. Sullivan is fine as a 3rd/4th CB. Stokes is a rookie though and he made some rookie mistakes today and will continue to, but I can live with them. My worry is if Alexander is out for a couple of games teams will expose the flaws that Stokes still has (though he's still improving and I have hopes that we can have a Woodson/Harris type CB duo again) and will expose the limitations that Sullivan has, like they did last year when he had to start. I don't really know what Jean-Charles and Yiadom can do but one or both of them will end up on the field (I saw Jean-Charles today though I wasn't watching closely as to how he did).

With the team not having really played a real offense (even NO in week 1 has dissociative identity disorder) I still don't know what the hell the defense baseline is under Barry. I guess SF with the healthy Jimmy G was a real offense but I've never really thought much of Jimmy G anyway. The ceiling on the talent, given average health, feels like it should be around 10th by DVOA, the floor feels like it could be around 26th which yes is a huge range, but I'm still trying to suss it out. My guy, and his history, suggests that Barry is not going to get everything out of the defense, so my thought was the best we would see was another 16th or so finish where only some of the talent is wasted, but my expectations were closer to 20th and wasting the talent that was there even worse than Pettine did. Pettine still had to go that was the right decision. The hire of Barry felt like a panic move after who they really wanted turned them down.

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#74 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:39pm

Big money back fumbles. 

I don't need to even say it. 

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#76 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:47pm

Looking at the other games, both Garoppolo and Bridgewater are hurt. Not sure what Garoppolo's situation is; Bridgewater got a concussion so his recovery timeframe is unclear.

Lance really hasn't done much - exactly one completed pass so far, but it was a 76 yard TD, and a 3.5 average on a few rushes.

Lock's numbers are a bit worse than Bridgewater's on a rate basis (shocker).

Obviously things can change quickly but neither is making a real case for a QB change once the starter recovers.

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#84 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:14pm

He has a calf strain so they brought in Lance who was unprepared.

Who cares?

The Niners are going nowhere this year.

Same as last year.

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#97 by justanothersteve // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:04pm

I figured it was just a matter of time before Garropolo was injured so there was no point in playing Lance until then

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#78 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 6:58pm

Diontae Johnson caught a pass on 3rd down and just about had the 1st, then ran backwards (???) and ended up leaving them in 4th and 4. Then on the 4th down snap he false started. Rough couple of plays to say the least. That'd be bad enough for a rookie but he's a 3rd year guy.

Although honestly if the Steelers were going to go for it on 4th and 4 they may as well have gone for it on 4th and 9. If you're serious about trying to win down 17 in the 4th, that's almost as bad as running backwards.

Though the Packers go 3 and out on the ensuing possession so "all" it cost them is time and field position after a great Bojorquez punt.

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#80 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:01pm

AGAIN...TODAY!

Man...now he's limping off. What a sad end.

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#81 by JS // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:04pm

Ben throws a 4th down pass way in front of the sticks with a defender right there.

It is hard to justify Pittsburgh's plan, or "plan," coming into this season. 

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#85 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:23pm

I get not wanting to chase a franchise icon out the door with a broom and he wasn't completely terrible last year, but they badly needed a better plan to hide his defficiencies. By my count per ESPN play-by-play 34 of his 40 pass attempts are classified as "short".

And we see why they didn't throw deep more...

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#98 by justanothersteve // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:06pm

Roethlisburger's ball inaccuracy surprised me and not just on the deep balls. A more accurate QB might have won Pittsburgh the game. 

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#82 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:08pm

Wasting my with trying to make them jump offsides and then calling a timeout. 

Please no more GB. 

And they fail on the next play anyway (at least it was in a funny fashion).

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#83 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:13pm

4-0 and on top in the NFC West.

I said L.A. was a bit overrated and we saw it.

Who were those people who thought Stafford was better than Kyler Murray?

 

Points: 0

#86 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:29pm

They run Lamar Jackson for 5 yards to keep the 100 yards rushing streak alive instead of taking a knee.  What happens if Jackson gets hurt???

Points: 0

#89 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:33pm

Lamar runs more than he passes so he's going to take some hits.

That's how their offense is designed, whether it's the start or end of a game.

Don't expect Harbaugh to change now.

Points: 0

#87 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:29pm

So Tomlin, you're saying Big Ben isn't washed?

No panic?

Bring back Duck Hodges!

 

 

Points: 0

#88 by Pen // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:30pm

Wilson reached 100 regular season wins since being drafted faster than any other quarterback in NFL history, attaining his 100th career win in the fourth start of the tenth season of his career. - Fieldgulls.

Is that right?  I thought this made him the fourth fastest behind Montana, Brady and Bradshaw.

Points: 0

#90 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:38pm

He's had a good NFL career, but he will be eclipsed by the new generation of mobile QB's.  Kyler Murray will have a better career when all is said and done.

Finally, Murray has a decent defense and the Cards are starting to roll.

Seattle has a tough turnaround game in a few days with L.A. who will be looking to bounceback from that Zona beatdown.

Points: 0

#93 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:52pm

Such a homer

Points: 0

#99 by DisplacedPackerFan // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:06pm

At least oaktoon (the insane Packer's Homer who makes DIVISION look calm and rational about the Cardinals) isn't around anymore. Clearly I'm a Packers homer, but at least most most of the responses I get indicate that I am usually rational about it. It was ugly when we had two irrational mega homers running around. It was hard to tell if Murray or Rodgers was the 2nd (or 3rd or simultaneous) coming of Jesus with both of them posting and knowing which QB is the spirit of God is an important thing to know!

Points: 0

#100 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:11pm

The Packers wasted so many prime years with poor talent on offense and bad defenses.

He should have had at least 3 SB rings by now.

I hope he goes to Pittsburgh to start a new chapter.

At least that fan base will appreciate him.

Green Bay folks are fickle.  You never side with the franchise over the best QB you've ever had (excuse me Bart Starr).

Points: 0

#101 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:12pm

is so random. OP didn't mention Kyler or the Cards whatsoever. He was just asking a q and DIVISION comes in slandering Russ to prop up Kyler for literally no reason whatsoever other than making everything about his/her Cards. Completely unnecessary and misses, not just OPs point, but the entire flippin canvas! 

And as I was writing this, look at that reply to you! SO RANDOM and off topic. I remember oaktoon but DIVISION seems way more identifiable in their homerism. Thought oaktoon was a Raiders fan lol

Points: 0

#106 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:27pm

Baby Oaktoon was an amateur.

I've been a Cards fan the whole time I've been a member of this forum.

Ask Aaron Schatz...

Points: 0

#147 by DisplacedPackerFan // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:58pm

I don't. Raiderjoe, after you realize his shtick as a bad typist with a complete blindspot for the Raiders (which worked better before autocorrect was everywhere) could actually be entertaining. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the game and how the current era ties into the past and could make some very salient points about any team that wasn't the Raiders. The Raiders homerism was so over the top and played up that it could actually be funny. I do understand how he could be tiresome and why you may choose to skip his posts though. But some of the "typos" could be hilarious, there could be real insight to be gained (even with the Raiders by taking what was said as the opposite).

If you want to draw an analogy that is admitted hyperbolic because I can be a bit of a snit too. Raiderjoe is the drunk guy at the bar who actually gets the game and can be funny and actually have an engaging conversation about other teams, but it happily blissfully blind about his own. If you like a good team he'll agree with you and talk about the great stuff and even engage in why they could beat everyone, other than the Raiders, and it will even be insightful as to why they can't be the Raiders even if utterly wrong. Oaktoon and DIVISION are just loud homer trolls that basically never add anything to the conversation. They are the drunk guys at the bar who despite any evidence are "XXXX is the best! Woooohooo! We are the Best! You are a cry baby dummy! We rule! You suck! Grow up you dumb baby! You're QB/WR/(whatever) will never be as good as OURs! We are the best and I'll explain why by belittling your team and pointing out their flaws but I won't ever point out my teams flaws! (I'll mention them but in a way that is the equivalent to answering what is your greatest weakest with 'I might perform too well and get my work done too fast') Oh and I'll insult you instead of trying to actually engage with you! You baby with your panties in a wad! Yeah! Woohoo! We rule!"

So yeah they stick out like amongst the regulars here, but one of them, while admittedly a taste that not all find it worth to acquire, stood out in a different way.

Points: 0

#159 by Kopalec // Oct 04, 2021 - 7:45am

One of them measures time since drafted & starting right away.   (Wilson/Manning)

The other ignores this and starts the counter at first actual start.  (Brady/Rodgers)

Tomato / tamatah , choose which you like.  Either give Russell credit for starting from get go and succeeding, or dismiss it as irrelevant. 

Points: 0

#91 by KaosTheory // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:41pm

Denver’s shot of winning the game was basically, well, shot when Bridgewater went down, though the Ravens did do a better job of moving the ball after the first quarter. I loved that they went for, and got, the final few yards at the end to tie the record for consecutive 100-yard rushing games. Too bad Tucker didn’t get to try a 70-yard kick today.

Points: 0

#94 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 03, 2021 - 7:54pm

If Brady wasn't playing, if it was Blaine Gabbert starting for the Bucs, would the Bucs be favoured over the Pats today?

I'm thinking yes. DVOA has the Pats' D as better ranked, but I think the opponents played so far this year is the major reason for this.  At best, I'd call them even on D, and give a major nod to the Bucs on O.  Jones even as a rookie is likely better than Gabbert, but even with Gronk out Gabbert has playmakers around him that Jones could only dream of.

This looks like a total mismatch, with much of the reason being the king's ransom Belichick spent on two average-ish TEs rather than shoring up the rest of the line up.

I suppose Belichick and crew will now come out and prove me an idiot, but I can't see NE being able to sustain drives against a quality D like TB.  This looks like one of those games where the range of results cover a TB blow out through to a narrow NE win on the back of multiple take-aways which either score points on D or set up the O with short fields.

Best thing about this game will likely be Brady getting the passing yardage record (again) in front of his former fans.  Should be a fun moment.

Points: 0

#116 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:09pm

Yeah I'd be pretty much shocked if NE wins outright. They just don't have the firepower to score consistently against that defense, which will likely mean their own defense gets worn out before the end. Guessing it's close at the half and the Bucs pull away late.

With a replacement-level QB in for TB, obviously it would be closer - maybe the NE defense gets off the field quicker - but that alone doesn't close the talent gap.

I know I sound like an irrational hater (maybe I am) but I still don't think Tom Brady is that good these days - but he knows his limitations and he's got a supporting cast that's absolutely perfect to minimize his weaknesses and maximize his soft skills and remaining physical ability. But put in someone else who avoids turnovers and can air it out a bit (say, a healthy Tyrod Taylor) and I don't think they're considerably worse. Not sure if Gabbert's quite on that level but if he (or anyone) could avoid turnovers, with that receiving corps they ought to manage at least a couple of scores - and with that defense against the NE offense, that ought to be enough.

Points: 0

#104 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:24pm

Should settle the Brady vs Billy debate.

Points: 0

#105 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:25pm

It's the only conclusion worth watching.

Points: 0

#108 by morganja // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:41pm

Typical Patriot BS. A fumble by 31 teams in the country. But overturned, overturned, mind you, by review.

Points: 0

#109 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:43pm

Caught ball, made football move, ball punched out.  

How do you overturn that?

Wasn't it called a fumble on the field?

Points: 0

#110 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:46pm

Timeouts in the 1st

Points: 0

#126 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:04pm

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

Kneeling out the half

Points: 0

#112 by vrao81 // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:51pm

Unsurprisingly Brady got the passing record

Points: 0

#113 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 8:53pm

Lollllll good on everyone at Gilette for letting the record breaking go by without any particular ceremony, ruining the tv broadcast's interminable hype.

I feel like I 'should' care more about NFL passing records, but when literally a half-dozen QBs of the same generation break the yardage mark (Roethlisberger passed Marino today too) - and two of those are Roethlisberger and Phil Rivers - it's just hard to think of it as more than a product of game-altering rule changes.

Points: 0

#123 by jgov // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:31pm

Even with the changes in passing rules, 80,000 yards is an absurd number. 20 seasons of 4,000 yards passing is not a benchmark that many more players will reach (though the 17th and likely eventual 18th game could dilute this point). It's been broken three times because we happened to have three all time greats playing at the same time and have extremely long careers. I doubt it will be broken for at least another decade if Mahomes plays into his 40s. 

Points: 0

#114 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:01pm

A few horrible overthrows.

He's human.

Points: 0

#115 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:07pm

He's had a good NFL career, but he will not be eclipsed by the new generation of mobile QB's.  Kyler Murray will have a worse career when all is said and done.

Finally, Brady has a decent defense and the Bucs are starting to roll.

Arizona has a tough turnaround game in a few days with S.F. who will be looking to bounceback from that Attle beatdown.

Points: 0

#117 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:11pm

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

The Niners are the worst team in the NFC West.  The worst QB, also.

After seeing what they did today at home, not worried a bit.

I'm more interested to see whether the Rams show up to play vs. Seattle in a few days or slide to 3-2.

Points: 0

#119 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:18pm

They aren't going anywhere with Murray.  He's serviceable, but not someone you want long-term.

They also traded Mason Cole, which was foolish.  Their picks are already elite.  They didn't need another pick.  They needed to give a limited Murray all the help he could get.

Points: 0

#120 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:21pm

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

Bravo. You are doing the Lord's work.

Points: 0

#163 by asleep06 // Oct 04, 2021 - 12:51pm

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

Epic :D

Points: 0

#121 by morganja // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:21pm

Refs are quickly making this game unwatchable. 

Points: 0

#122 by DIVISION // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:23pm

Brady better get it together.

He's getting upstaged by Mac Jones!

Points: 0

#124 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 03, 2021 - 9:49pm

Hadn't realized TB's DBs were as injured as they are.  Thought Sherman was a depth pickup, not an emergency replacement.  Against a team more willing to throw than NE is, that could be a problem.

Meanwhile, Belichick refuses to go for it on 4th-and-2 on TB's side of the field with 2:00 to go.  As if pinning TB deep is more likely to keep them from scoring than going for it.

EDIT: and TB with the FG.  Weird, weird decision by Belichick, as converting the 4th-down would have almost certainly meant points for NE.

Points: 0

#125 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:01pm

If he still had Brady, I have no doubt they'd have gone straight to the hurry-up and gotten the play off before the two min warning. On a rainy night with a rookie QB and the run getting stuffed all night long? I thought that was the right call.

Points: 0

#128 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:11pm

He has had 3 QB’s in 3 years, Brady, Newton and Jones.  He is now a conservative coach he did this with Brady and Newton, I do not believe it is because Jones is a rookie.

I can not believe that you would use a razzle dazzle high risk 3rd and 17 play, gain 15 and not go for 4th and 2.

Points: 0

#129 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:27pm

I remember like 15 years ago the Pats had a situation where they had the lead and would win if they converted like 4th and 2 and they tried it and failed (IIRC, on a short pass to Kevin Faulk) and he just got savaged in the media for weeks afterwards. I don't know if the reaction got to him (doubt it) or if he just decided it's not worth the risk to his taste (he's never been particularly analytics-oriented as I understand it), but it's interesting how severely sentiment about 4th down aggression has turned around in recent years, both inside and outside the league. Never thought I'd see the day that Belichick was rightly considered tactically "conservative" but here we are.

Points: 0

#130 by vrao81 // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:37pm

That was 2009, colts vs pats. Pats tried to convert but failed, and Manning led the colts for the gw TD. I remember Belichick was roasted in the press, but FO and other sites thought going for it was the right call.

Points: 0

#131 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:51pm

I remember that game - that was 100% the right call. The Colts were on fire in the 2nd half, and converting the 4th and 2 would have sealed the game for them. Even the play itself was close - Faulk was past the sticks, but he bobbled the pass and got pushed back by the time he brought it in. And yes, not only did Aaron & co. agree with the call, but almost all of the commenters here did, too (and in real time).

Points: 0

#132 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:52pm

Ah yeah, that was it, thanks! And yes that was 100% the right call. It just struck me that Belichick had one of the early notable examples of that kind of aggression, but as it's become more mainstream, he hasn't entirely been on board with it it seems.

Points: 0

#148 by GwillyGecko // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:59pm

It's only the right call if you make a lot of assumptions about percentages that are very questionable

Points: 0

#149 by GwillyGecko // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:59pm

It's only the right call if you make a lot of assumptions about percentages that are very questionable

Points: 0

#150 by GwillyGecko // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:59pm

It's only the right call if you make a lot of assumptions about percentages that are very questionable(including severely understating the extra 45 yards of field position indy got from stopping the fourth down versus a punt, and overestimating the patriots chances of converting fourth and 2 by a one dimensional offense 

Points: 0

#133 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 10:54pm

Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith each with a TD. Guess that's why they got the big bucks...

Points: 0

#134 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:27pm

Surprised. Now Jones gets a timeout to drive. But only 1.

Points: 0

#135 by Spanosian Magn… // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:34pm

I'm really curious about the win expectancy of TB's strategy there. I guess the idea is to take two chances to go up by a TD (best case, with 2pt conversion, NE would need to score and make the XP) as opposed to running it down to ~80 secs left and kicking a likely FG for a 2-point lead. But the TD isn't a killshot there (~50% to get the 2pts) and scoring on passes that long can't be too likely (though I guess they might be fishing for DPI too).

Almost seems like if you're going to pass, it might make more sense to go for a mid-range target to just move the chains again.

Points: 0

#136 by morganja // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:36pm

Refs are really going overtime here for the Patriots. This is a debacle for the NFL.

Points: 0

#141 by mansteel // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:41pm

Yeah, two horrible calls. Now Brady knows how it feels to be on the other side of that :)

Not that it mattered in the end.

Points: 0

#162 by Mike B. In Va // Oct 04, 2021 - 10:59am

My immediate thought was "wow, questionable PI at the end of the game in Foxborough? Who knew!"

Points: 0

#137 by ImNewAroundThe… // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:38pm

Bucs win but they don't cover.

I continue to feel really good about the Packers winning it all. A lot of beatable teams this year. 

Points: 0

#138 by Independent George // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:39pm

Oy. Leaving aside the missed kick, the best case scenario there was leaving Tampa with a minute and two timeouts to win the game. They needed a first down to win, not a FG. 

That was another sloppy offensive performance by the Pats. Tampa's DL is still great, but they're down to signing guys in the parking lot before game time to fill the secondary

Points: 0

#139 by jheidelberg // Oct 03, 2021 - 11:39pm

If he makes the 56 yarder he has a good chance of losing anyway, make 4th and 3 and the win is likely.

Points: 0

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